Frozen greens to play or not

[need_my_wedge]

I post this at the risk of another debate on whether we should/ shouldn't play on frozen greens. I did try but couldn't find a suitable thread to resurrect. The only reason I'm posting this is because I saw this article this morning and thought it worth a read.

https://www.golfmagic.com/course-news/why-do-some-golf-clubs-use-temporary-greens-while-others-dont which was originally published on the BIGGA (Greenkeeping Association) website earlier this year https://www.bigga.org.uk/news-listing/why-do-some-clubs-use-temporary-greens.html .

It's still fairly anecdotal, and inconclusive in my opinion. The ones that don't stay off for the reasons given re: leaf/ root damage mentioned in every other post. The ones that do play on them say that they saw no difference to the greens that stayed in operation vs the ones that didn't. Was hoping that coming from BIGGA it would be a little more authoritative on the issue, but sadly not. It seems that grass damage is likely in frosty conditions but there is no conclusive yes/ no answer to stay on / stay off. It's effectively the head greenkeepers decision base on their own opinion of the conditions and likely effects to the course.

I do know that our course used to move to temps pretty quick, but when our head greenkeeper came on board about 4 years ago, we moved to staying on frozen greens for the most part. I don't think we've seen much in the way of green issues as a result.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Ours do not close for frozen greens, I played on them last week and they were undoubtedly frozen until around 10am when the sun started to thaw them. We never have temporary greens. We have an issue with slow greens but not damaged ones come summer. They are always smooth and true, just slow.

I am not saying it is the right decision, it is just how it is.

 

[Curls]

I hit a perfect 8 iron into a frozen green yesterday, it bounced 50 foot in the air and sailed into the abyss. Walking across it in spikes was like wearing high heals on an ice rink*. So I can't imagine I was doing any damage when I was skating across the surface! The real reason not to play on frozen greens is the point above, it's one thing judging your landing zone in the hard pan of a hot summer but this is a complete lottery when the ground is like concrete.

*don't ask me how I know, it was a weird time for me.

 

[garyinderry]

I hit a perfect 8 iron into a frozen green yesterday, it bounced 50 foot in the air and sailed into the abyss. Walking across it in spikes was like wearing high heals on an ice rink*. So I can't imagine I was doing any damage when I was skating across the surface! The real reason not to play on frozen greens is the point above, it's one thing judging your landing zone in the hard pan of a hot summer but this is a complete lottery when the ground is like concrete.

*don't ask me how I know, it was a weird time for me.

Played a course in england once with the same problem. Land ball on green and it rockets off into the distance behind the green.

Really shouldn't be out playing in that.

My course doesn't open until the frost clears. Kind of glad as it makes up our minds for us. Golf junkies will be out in silly conditions if they are allowed.

 

[need_my_wedge]

....... Golf junkies will be out in silly conditions if they are allowed.

 

[rosecott]

Our Course Manager has been with us for 8+ years now. When he arrived he changed the greens policy to have normal greens in play throughout the year. The only time the greens are not in play is when the course closes due to snow. Following this change of policy, our greens have never been better. As far as hitting a perfect 8-iron into the green goes, you very quickly find out that's not the shot to play in those conditions.

 

[Robster59]

Interestingly enough I saw this on Facebook yesterday which explains why it is better not to play on regular greens when it's frozen.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3022630021085369&id=135418303139903

We tend to be on temporary greens if it is frozen but otherwise on regular greens all year round. Any approach to them is a lottery as a full pitch can bounce off anywhere and a bump and run can do the same. Still, I don't get wound up by it. They're just fun games so enjoy the clear crisp day. That's the important thing.

 

[rosecott]

Interestingly enough I saw this on Facebook yesterday which explains why it is better not to play on regular greens when it's frozen.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3022630021085369&id=135418303139903

We tend to be on temporary greens if it is frozen but otherwise on regular greens all year round. Any approach to them is a lottery as a full pitch can bounce off anywhere and a bump and run can do the same. Still, I don't get wound up by it. They're just fun games so enjoy the clear crisp day. That's the important thing.

From my reading, that's not what he is saying. It's OK to play on frozen greens but there can be issues when the frost is coming out. The BIGGA article says that this issue can be dealt with.

 

[Curls]

Our Course Manager has been with us for 8+ years now. When he arrived he changed the greens policy to have normal greens in play throughout the year. The only time the greens are not in play is when the course closes due to snow. Following this change of policy, our greens have never been better. As far as hitting a perfect 8-iron into the green goes, you very quickly find out that's not the shot to play in those conditions.

I've never played on frozen greens before, I usually put the clubs away at the end of October and take them out again in March. It is a mistake I made only once!

 

[patricks148]

the slightest sign of frost and we are on temps, even if it warms up later they sometimes don't bother going back on the main greens, our HGK is very is more protectionist than Trump

some places do stay on if possible, Nairn Dunbar tries to, but i suppose with little or no growth up here for best part of 4 or 5 months its better to be safe than sorry

 

[pendodave]

Ours close at the first sign of frost.
A course down the road doesn't, and the greens are fine.
We go there in the afternoon when they have thawed enough to be playable (ours rarely go back on at the weekend because there are no staff about).
Playing on greens that are actually frozen is pretty pointless in my experience, and I play in most conditions.

 

[need_my_wedge]

the slightest sign of frost and we are on temps, even if it warms up later they sometimes don't bother going back on the main greens, our HGK is very is more protectionist than Trump

some places do stay on if possible, Nairn Dunbar tries to, but i suppose with little or no growth up here for best part of 4 or 5 months its better to be safe than sorry

I know my lad has been on temps a couple of times up at Dornoch recentlt

 

[patricks148]

I know my lad has been on temps a couple of times up at Dornoch recentlt

even worse up there, the championship don't go on temps if its frosty they close the course and in temps on the Struie.

mind you at least they re asses and if its cleared up later they go back on the main course, bit of a pain when you drive all the way up there to play and end up on the strue with buckets

 

[Grant85]

Personally don't bother.

Golf is a summer (or at least non-winter) sport and apart from maybe a fun get together on a bright day, I have no interest in playing on a frozen golf course.

I appreciate there are a contingent in the 365 brigade that don't have much else to do, but if there is a chance of causing extra damage to the greens then I'm more than happy for the greenskeeper to put temps on.

Winter is an important time for greens staff to get on with important maintenance and various projects and I'm more than happy for them to get on with that during the hours of daylight they have.

 

[peld]

i played 2 rounds at the weekend - both in sub zero temps! (Saturday was our winter league)
Course was so frosty it looked like snow, complete whiteout.
Trying to approach greens was just stupid. Having to play half shots, chip and runs etc but the bounces and frosts were so unpredictable. Putting wasnt too bad as the frosts took out the break.
Was quite amusing on one hole - a short par 3 but a stream runs along the front of the green. It was physically impossible to actually get a ball on the green. The green (which is always shady) was like concrete - a nice shot (or any shot to the green for that matter) just bounced and went in to the sh*t at the back.
To be honest it was a nice walk but wasnt a fan of the golf like that

 

[Swango1980]

If green is frozen, the ball will still create a pitch mark if it comes in hard enough (or if the very top level is slightly softer). It is impossible to repair this. Surely this is a good reason not to play on them for the sake of the course? Also, from a playing point of view, you are more likely to land directly on the green first bounce compared to a small winter green, which will result in some mega bounces to whatever lies beyond.

In frozen conditions, our course stays open, we just move to temporary greens. It is a complete lottery, but I do enjoy the different challenge. You just need to accept that you may well not get a good score even if you are swing well, and just have a laugh at the comical bounces of the frozen uneven fairway / rough and dodgy bounces when you hit it on to the temp green, even with chips. If you take golf very seriously, the time to do so is during the normal season only. If you play for fun and having a laugh, you can do so all year. Just wrap up.

 

[duncan mackie]

They were frozen this morning when we teed of in a comp...we don't have temp greens.

The big issue is if ice is collecting on golf shoes - that golden period as it starts to thaw - and players walk on the green with large accumulations making indentations in the surface that cause problems. When thisnis happening the course can be closed for a bit, and everyone is asked to take appropriate care etc etc

 

[jim8flog]

About the only time we go on to temps is when the main greens are waterlogged/ flooded.

We play on frozen greens but may go to temps when they start to thaw if the frost has actually penetrated to the ground layers. This is the time when the damage gets done apparently.

 

[clubchamp98]

They were frozen this morning when we teed of in a comp...we don't have temp greens.

The big issue is if ice is collecting on golf shoes - that golden period as it starts to thaw - and players walk on the green with large accumulations making indentations in the surface that cause problems. When thisnis happening the course can be closed for a bit, and everyone is asked to take appropriate care etc etc

This happens at mine .
When the greens are thawing out but sheltered fairways are still frosty it looks like someone has ran around the green with football boots on.
We go on temps now but back on greens usually about 11am when frost is thawing.

 

[Tiger man]

I'll never play on a frozen course again, get zero enjoyment and not worth damaging the place for if it indeed does.