Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
She will be a long time in prison if she does come here. And she will be in isolation to protect her from other prisoners. All paid for by the taxpayers.
Shamima Begum - In or Out
- Thread starter PNWokingham
- Start date
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
My thoughts on this are known. But I would be interested to know peoples thoughts on where a line should be drawn on when folk should be allowed back to the UK. Come to that matter even deported.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
We didn’t start it, no point taking a knife to a gunfight imo.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Will depend on what crime she is charged with - if she has committed no terrorist acts it’s going to be hard to charge her at that level
RichA
Well-known member
Will she though? Is there the possibility that the UK are so keen to keep her away because there isn't that much actual court usable evidence against her. Lots of information, but how much actual evidence. Absolutely not defending her - just wonder what they've got that can be put in front of a jury.
Edit: LiverpoolPhil has the fastest fingers.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
I'll start by saying I dont want her back. She was young but she made her bed and she should lie on it. But ...
As far as I have read, she was born a British citizen. (If she wasn't, I don't see how the UK could strip her of it?).. And being "entitled" to Bangladeshi citizenship is not the same as "having" Bangladeshi citizenship. So if the Bangladeshis have not yet given her citizenship (and indeed, don't want her), and her UK citizenship has been removed, I'm not sure how she's not stateless? But I'm not a lawyer..
And while she is reported as holding extreme and abhorent views (I say that as I dont personally know her) , that is hardly exclusive and she is not alone. Which really seems to leave only whether she has actually committed any "terrorist related" crime that the UK can charge her with - should she come back that is?
To me, it all adds up to being a mess.
As far as I have read, she was born a British citizen. (If she wasn't, I don't see how the UK could strip her of it?).. And being "entitled" to Bangladeshi citizenship is not the same as "having" Bangladeshi citizenship. So if the Bangladeshis have not yet given her citizenship (and indeed, don't want her), and her UK citizenship has been removed, I'm not sure how she's not stateless? But I'm not a lawyer..
And while she is reported as holding extreme and abhorent views (I say that as I dont personally know her) , that is hardly exclusive and she is not alone. Which really seems to leave only whether she has actually committed any "terrorist related" crime that the UK can charge her with - should she come back that is?
To me, it all adds up to being a mess.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Becoming a member of ISIS must be an offence.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
If someone willingly joins a state ( ISIS ). There not stateless.
Come what may, backwoodsmans last sentence sums it up perfectly
Come what may, backwoodsmans last sentence sums it up perfectly
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
It's tough on her but She needs to be an example to deter others from contemplating similar action in the future.
ISIS is an outfit that carried out some of the most despicable acts of murder and mutilation. Anyone from this Nation who joins it absolutely needs keeping out of the country. It sickens me the thought of this person coming back and I despair at anyone suggesting she should.
ISIS is an outfit that carried out some of the most despicable acts of murder and mutilation. Anyone from this Nation who joins it absolutely needs keeping out of the country. It sickens me the thought of this person coming back and I despair at anyone suggesting she should.
Kellfire
Blackballed
ISIS isn’t a recognised state.If someone willingly joins a state ( ISIS ). There not stateless.
Come what may, backwoodsmans last sentence sums it up perfectly
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Not often I agree with you but I'm 100% with this statement
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Oh Val! And I thought we were getting on so well these days ?
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
If someone willingly joins a state ( ISIS ). There not stateless.
Come what may, backwoodsmans last sentence sums it up perfectly
Come what may, backwoodsmans last sentence sums it up perfectly
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I think that is what sums it up
It is a mess
ISIS have carried out horrific attacks over their time in response to the occupation of various Middle East countries - it’s a vast never ending circle of hatred and death which will prob still continue there and in other places as we see in Jerusalem currently.
Many of those organisations will have sympathisers etc but currently having belief isn’t a crime - there are no doubt many people who believe that all “…..insert any race or religion” should die - but it’s just a belief - carry out the action and that’s a different ball game
She had a belief ( groomed or not ) - she followed that belief , it cost her badly. If she hasn’t carried out any terrorist attack then it’s hard to see what crime she could be charged against hence why I think the lawyers know it’s an easy case for them - having a belief regardless of who repugnant that belief is currently isnt a crime.
And ISIS isn’t a recognised state by international law so can’t use the old “she has a state”
It’s a very complex situation that I expect will unravel soon enough with her back in the UK - what live she lives then will be dependent on her actions before and after
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
These days yes ?
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Isn't joining a banned/ terrorist organisation a crime?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I suspect it will be down to what the lawyers can figure out in regards what’s classed a “joining a terrorist organisation” - I guess unless there is some official “membership” or some ceremony or something then a lawyer will find a loophole . Like I said I don’t think the whole thing is black and white - but if they believe a crime has been committed by her then charged her and then through the courts etc to and punished.
ISIS is/was a proscribed organisation, and she could be charged with membership. The sentencing guidelines/matrix is fairly clear. However, defining where she fitted into the hierarchy will be more difficult.
Sentence for being a member starts at 2 years and goes up or down depending on involvement. It could be reduced to a high level community order, or it could be increased to 4 years custody.
If she was an active member, for example the stories of her being an enforcer in the morality police, the sentence starts at 5 years but, again, can be mitigated or increased to a max of 7 years.
The higher sentences are for prominent members. Rule that one out.
I’d expect her defence, as per the guidelines, will include age on entry, grooming, exploitation, coercion and intimidation. That’s all assuming she does get back to the U.K. and wins the reinstatement of her citizenship.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Would you be content for her to come back?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I don’t expect anyone to be “content” about her - some will be outraged, some will think she deserves to dealt with correctly by the courts for her actions what ever they might be and some won’t be bothered either way - I’ll Prob be in the last camp
