Shamima Begum - In or Out

[Voyager EMH]

There is a political aspect, but we can easily avoid that discussion. There is a legal aspect and a moral aspect.
Legally, she is not a UK citizen. Home secretary did not act wrongly.
If Bangladesh do not accept her, there are other countries she could approach or she could mount her legal campaign to have Bangladeshi citizenship.
The UK have made it very clear what the legal position is as far as the UK is concerned.
Morally, she is OUT OUT OUT of the UK in my view. This is the aspect where they may be differing opinions.

 

[rudebhoy]

There is a political aspect, but we can easily avoid that discussion. There is a legal aspect and a moral aspect.
Legally, she is not a UK citizen. Home secretary did not act wrongly.
If Bangladesh do not accept her, there are other countries she could approach or she could mount her legal campaign to have Bangladeshi citizenship.
The UK have made it very clear what the legal position is as far as the UK is concerned.
Morally, she is OUT OUT OUT of the UK in my view. This is the aspect where they may be differing opinions.

Has that been established? My understanding is she has appealed against it, and the appeal has still to be heard.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There is a political aspect, but we can easily avoid that discussion. There is a legal aspect and a moral aspect.
Legally, she is not a UK citizen. Home secretary did not act wrongly.
If Bangladesh do not accept her, there are other countries she could approach or she could mount her legal campaign to have Bangladeshi citizenship.
The UK have made it very clear what the legal position is as far as the UK is concerned.
Morally, she is OUT OUT OUT of the UK in my view. This is the aspect where they may be differing opinions.

I have a feeling that a human rights appeal court will disagree and that the removal of her UK citizenship was unlawful and left her stateless mainly because she was born in the UK and she will be allowed to re enter the UK. She can then be charged with any crimes they deem she has committed. The removal of her UK Citizenship was more about satisfying the public as opposed to any perceived threat she is. Her attitude appears to change over the last couple of years and maybe losing her three children and realities of what was happening hit home. It won’t be long before she is back in the UK imo

 

[rudebhoy]

I have a feeling that a human rights appeal court will disagree and that the removal of her UK citizenship was unlawful and left her stateless mainly because she was born in the UK and she will be allowed to re enter the UK. She can then be charged with any crimes they deem she has committed. The removal of her UK Citizenship was more about satisfying the public as opposed to any perceived threat she is. Her attitude appears to change over the last couple of years and maybe losing her three children and realities of what was happening hit home. It won’t be long before she is back in the UK imo

And that's the right way to deal with it IMO. Imagine if someone came over here from Iran or Iraq (or wherever), were found to be plotting against us, then when they got arrested, their country of birth said we are revoking their citizenship, they can stay in the UK for the rest of their lives? can just imagine the moral outrage that would cause!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Nothing has changed imo, Let her rot in hell, her and anyone else who supports terrorists that kill innocent women and children.

 

[Tashyboy]

I went to my first military funeral yesterday. I hope it’s the last. He committed suicide due to ptsd. It was due to things he saw in Afghan. Done by people that this woman supported. She should never set foot on this country’s soil again.

 

[Beezerk]

Nothing has changed imo, Let her rot in hell, her and anyone else who supports terrorists that kill innocent women and children.

I'm with this, re Phil's comment about her citizenship being removed to please the public, I would sincerely hope it was to stop another potential Manchester Arena, London Underground etc etc etc bomber entering the country.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm with this, re Phil's comment about her citizenship being removed to please the public, I would sincerely hope it was to stop another potential Manchester Arena, London Underground etc etc etc bomber entering the country.

I could understand that theory if there was any evidence at all of her taking part in any terrorist activity at all - and so far there isn’t

We have terrorists in jail etc so if they do suspect then allow to her arrive then arrest her and charge her etc

I don’t think the whole thing is black and white hence why I can see her winning her appeal against what the Home Secretary has done

 

[Beezerk]

I could understand that theory if there was any evidence at all of her taking part in any terrorist activity at all - and so far there isn’t

We have terrorists in jail etc so if they do suspect then allow to her arrive then arrest her and charge her etc

I don’t think the whole thing is black and white hence why I can see her winning her appeal against what the Home Secretary has done

She gladly went over there to join Isis and be doctrinated into their beliefs, that for me is good enough reason to believe she wouldn't hesitate to set off a rucksack full of bombs in a crowded market. As already mentioned, the fact they got defeated means she maybe never got as deep into it as she anticipated, we don't know the full extent of what she did and didn't do out there, nor do we know the full extent of her activities when she was here in the UK, group of girls just suddenly decide one day to jump ship and join Isis? Something smells fishy with that.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

She gladly went over there to join Isis and be doctrinated into their beliefs, that for me is good enough reason to believe she wouldn't hesitate to set off a rucksack full of bombs in a crowded market. As already mentioned, the fact they got defeated means she maybe never got as deep into it as she anticipated, we don't know the full extent of what she did and didn't do out there, nor do we know the full extent of her activities when she was here in the UK, group of girls just suddenly decide one day to jump ship and join Isis? Something smells fishy with that.

She supported them, married one of them, bred with one of them. That’s more than enough for me.
Just because we don’t have her fingerprint on a weapon makes no odds imo, she’s one of them and they all should be exterminated.

 

[SocketRocket]

I could understand that theory if there was any evidence at all of her taking part in any terrorist activity at all - and so far there isn’t

We have terrorists in jail etc so if they do suspect then allow to her arrive then arrest her and charge her etc

I don’t think the whole thing is black and white hence why I can see her winning her appeal against what the Home Secretary has done

She's one of them by association. We don't want her back in our society or pay for her to stay in our prisons. I do hope we take the same line with all of them though.

 

[rudebhoy]

She's one of them by association. We don't want her back in our society or pay for her to stay in our prisons. I do hope we take the same line with all of them though.

We don't. Around 900 UK citizens travelled to Syria to join ISIS. As of last November, 400 of them had returned to the UK.

 

[PNWokingham]

We don't. Around 900 UK citizens travelled to Syria to join ISIS. As of last November, 400 of them had returned to the UK.

and with luck there will be a lot less than the missing 500 left

 

[rudebhoy]

and with luck there will be a lot less than the missing 500 left

20% of those who went over copped it, the rest are in jail.

 

[RichA]

She supported them, married one of them, bred with one of them. That’s more than enough for me.
Just because we don’t have her fingerprint on a weapon makes no odds imo, she’s one of them and they all should be exterminated.

I have no opinion on this case, as I haven't read all the facts, but that statement is the kind of reasoning that the terrorists use to justify killing anyone whose taxes have paid for what they consider to be assaults on their countries. Dangerous ground.

 

[GuyInLyon]

Just because they say it doesn't mean it's correct.

If the government of Bangladesh says that she isn't a citizen, then she's not a Bangladeshi citizen.
BBC News says, "Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said Ms Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there is "no question" of her being allowed into the country."

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If the government of Bangladesh says that she isn't a citizen, then she's not a Bangladeshi citizen.
BBC News says, "Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said Ms Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there is "no question" of her being allowed into the country."

It doesn't work that way. Otherwise you would not be arguing that we could not simply do the same. They don't want her, don't blame them, but it is in the realms of technicalities now. It is where the legal people make money.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If the government of Bangladesh says that she isn't a citizen, then she's not a Bangladeshi citizen.
BBC News says, "Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said Ms Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there is "no question" of her being allowed into the country."

There was something that Hobbit posted that means because her parents were Bangladesh Citizens she was giving Citizenship by birth which is the reason why the UK believe they can remove her UK Citizenship because she wouldn’t be left stateless

Then Bangladesh says she isn’t a Citizen because she didn’t ever claim it and didn’t ever have a Bangladesh passport so she can’t go there

If the appeal court sides with Bangladesh ( and I think they will ) then the UK won’t be able to remove her citizenship because that will leave her stateless , either way the lawyers are going to make a mint from this

 

[Don Barzini]

Fairly sure she'll end up back here at some stage.

 

[SocketRocket]

Fairly sure she'll end up back here at some stage.

Unfortunately you are probably right.