Scratch comps in your division

[Deleted member 15344]

What's wrong with the way it's is now ?

We have two scratch comps - KO and Club Champs

Handicaps are there for a reason - to level the playing field out and give everyone a chance

No need for divisions - the best score minus handicap wins the comp ( if medal ) and best stableford score wins

That's the beauty of golf - the 26 handicapper has as much as a chance as the 2 handicapper.

 

[Alex1975]

Obviously not every comp but maybe one or two a year.I did think about the 5.5 guy staying at 5.5 but he/she would still be chopped as normal if under CSS

Cool idea

 

[Simbo]

Scratch golf is scratch golf, least amount of shots irregardless of handicap, saying you won a "scratch" competition shooting 90 or whatever is pointless IMO, is it really going to be that different from winning with a NETT score?
Starting to try and put different divisions of "scratch" golf is nonsense IMO. Will end up tuning golf into the same as boxing/UFC with to many divisions/categories.

 

[bobmac]

What's wrong with the way it's is now ?

Jo Bloggs and Jim Smith are playing in a medal.

Jo, off 13.0 has a good day and shoots 83.....2 under CSS
Jim off 20.4 has a very good day and shoots 87.....5 under CSS
Jo has a nice little h/cap cut to 12.4 but doesn't win although he has the lowest score
Jim has a bigger cut to 18.5 and does win, despite having the higher score.

With my idea, both players would still get cut but Jo would win as he played the better golf.

Handicaps are there for a reason - to level the playing field out and give everyone a chance

In an ideal world I would agree.

No need for divisions - the best score minus handicap wins the comp ( if medal ) and best stableford score wins

So why do clubs have net divisions in their comps?

That's the beauty of golf - the 26 handicapper has as much as a chance as the 2 handicapper.

Where's the incentive to improve then?

If you compare it to the football leagues...
as the team gets better, they get promoted into a better group of teams so Bexhill Rovers win division 3 and get promoted to division 2.

In my idea, Jo Blogs has won Cat III and is now promoted to Cat II and Jim has moved up the league.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Jo Bloggs and Jim Smith are playing in a medal.

Jo, off 13.0 has a good day and shoots 83.....2 under CSS
Jim off 20.4 has a very good day and shoots 87.....5 under CSS
Jo has a nice little h/cap cut to 12.4 but doesn't win although he has the lowest score
Jim has a bigger cut to 18.5 and does win, despite having the higher score.

With my idea, both players would still get cut but Jo would win as he played the better golf.




In an ideal world I would agree.



So why do clubs have net divisions in their comps?



Where's the incentive to improve then?

Your idea reduce the amount of people with the chance of winning - the lower handicaps in each division will have the better chance and the highers will just get fed up and stop playing comps

If people want to play in comps that reward someone who has hit the lowest shots - play in scratch comps

We are amateurs - we have handicaps for a reason - to give everyone a fair chance , we want to encourage more people to play , we want the 28 handicap to improve and he will do that by entering comps and playing well.

Amateur comps are handicap comps for a reason

Pro comps are scratch comps for a reason

Lets not make the game reward just the lower handicaps

 

[HawkeyeMS]

This is something I have suggested on here before so it's a yes from me :thup:

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Where's the incentive to improve ?

There isn't one Bob. I know a lot of people who only care about having a handicap they can win off of because winning is all many people care about. This is what the handicap system does, it allows people to win without actually trying to improve and on most occasions, the best golfer on the day gets nothing.

The problem is, this is how it works and this is why a lot of people play club golf comps. If you changed it to the way you suggest, the number of entrants would drop and people would just play their own greedies where they had a chance of winning.

 

[bobmac]

Your idea reduce the amount of people with the chance of winning - the lower handicaps in each division will have the better chance and the highers will just get fed up and stop playing comps

I dont agree. Do lower placed football teams give up? I believe it gives the players incentive to improve, rather than relying on a h/cap to help them win.

If people want to play in comps that reward someone who has hit the lowest shots - play in scratch comps

So the better you get, the fewer comps you can win?

Lets not make the game reward just the lower handicaps

Perish the thought where the person who plays the best golf in their division wins

 

[SocketRocket]

If people play off scratch but only compete with others of a similar handicap in some comps, I don't see the problem. Low handicap golfers will do the same.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I dont agree. Do lower placed football teams give up? I believe it gives the players incentive to improve, rather than relying on a h/cap to help them win.


So the better you get, the fewer comps you can win?




Perish the thought where the person who plays the best golf in their division wins

Unfortunately Bob we are talking about amateur golfers here, most would give up playing comps if it was changed to this. Sadly, a large majority don't want to have to improve to compete.

 

[bobmac]

Hands up anyone who has had a cracking game, beaten your h/cap and been stuffed by someone 7 shots higher than you.

This idea that higher h/caps cant compete with the lower guys IN THEIR DIVISION I think is not valid in today's amateur game.

 

[Hobbit]

What's wrong with the way it's is now ?

We have two scratch comps - KO and Club Champs

Handicaps are there for a reason - to level the playing field out and give everyone a chance

No need for divisions - the best score minus handicap wins the comp ( if medal ) and best stableford score wins

That's the beauty of golf - the 26 handicapper has as much as a chance as the 2 handicapper.

He's suggesting a few a year, not every comp!

A chance a few times a year to test your self against the best in your division, unless you are the best and then you're defending your position as the best.

A number of years ago I was a member at a small club that only had one division for every comp. Great fun almost every week seeing 6-7 under nett winning, and knowing I'd have to shoot under gross to get a half.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Hands up anyone who has had a cracking game, beaten your h/cap and been stuffed by someone 7 shots higher than you.

This idea that higher h/caps cant compete with the lower guys IN THEIR DIVISION I think is not valid in today's amateur game.

I agree, most wouldn't.

 

[bladeplayer]

Hands up anyone who has had a cracking game, beaten your h/cap and been stuffed by someone 7 shots higher than you.

This idea that higher h/caps cant compete with the lower guys IN THEIR DIVISION I think is not valid in today's amateur game.

Every week Bob . not complaining as thats they way it is , every game i go out i play i play to lower my handicap i dont even harbour thoughts of winning , there are a group of us who are mainly playing for the gross prize ,

Just the way it is

Because of CSS most weeks 1 over handicap will get me .1, will need 3 under to get me -.2

 

[Stuey01]

Jo off 12.5 (13) shoots 83, and wins.
Jeff off 12.4 (12) shoots 79, and loses.

Who played the better golf?


I'd like to know who are all these mythical high handicappers who are winning all these comps and somehow not getting cut in the process. The low boys at my club regularly feature at or near the top of the leaderboard in medals, usually win the various matchplay knockouts, and last year the best net score in the club champs by 4 strokes was shot by a 1 handicapper who annihilated the field for both the gross AND net comps. In my experience the low fellas do just fine at my place.

But this thread has devolved again into a low handicap hard done by whinge-fest as seems to happen regualarly on here. It must really suck to be good at golf, judging by the amount of moaning.

 

[bladeplayer]

Jo off 12.5 (13) shoots 83, and wins.
Jeff off 12.4 (12) shoots 79, and loses.

Who played the better golf?


.

Id be guessing the lower score played the best golf ? maybe im missing something , How did Jeff lose ?

Gross 4 better , nett 3 better ? apologies if i am seeing this wrong

he might not have played to his best but surely whoever shoots the lowest score played the best golf on any given day ? you not agree?

 

[Stuey01]

Id be guessing the lower score played the best golf ? maybe im missing something , How did Jeff lose ?

Gross 4 better , nett 3 better ? apologies if i am seeing this wrong

he might not have played to his best but surely whoever shoots the lowest score played the best golf on any given day ? you not agree?

Jeff is in the 6-12 division so he got hammered by a guy off 5.5 that shot 73. Jo is in the 13-20 group so he beat all the guys off higher handicaps than him.
So Jeff loses, Jo wins.
Jeff played better.

Pointing out the problem with the proposed system...

 

[bobmac]

Jeff is in the 6-12 division so he got hammered by a guy off 5.5 that shot 73. Jo is in the 13-20 group so he beat all the guys off higher handicaps than him.
So Jeff loses, Jo wins.
Jeff played better.

Pointing out the problem with the proposed system...

Sorry if I didn't make it clear.
Jo loses because he didn't have the lowest gross IN HIS GROUP
Jim won because he DID
You are competing against ONLY the guys in your division.
Jeff is in Cat II and gets beaten by Bill off 5.5. Bill then gets promoted to Cat I
Jo is in Cat III and shoots 83, wins his group and gets promoted to Cat II

 

[bladeplayer]

Jeff is in the 6-12 division so he got hammered by a guy off 5.5 that shot 73. Jo is in the 13-20 group so he beat all the guys off higher handicaps than him.
So Jeff loses, Jo wins.
Jeff played better.

Pointing out the problem with the proposed system...

Sorry mate my misunderstanding . i thought you meant a normal comp per post #51 ..

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I dont agree. Do lower placed football teams give up? I believe it gives the players incentive to improve, rather than relying on a h/cap to help them win.


So the better you get, the fewer comps you can win?




Perish the thought where the person who plays the best golf in their division wins

The comparison to football teams is irrelevant - they play the sport to earn a living and is professional sport

Perfect example for you

We had a young lad who won best gross nearly every medal for nearly 3 years ( won clubs champs 3 or 4 years in a row )

In your plan he would win the low division pretty much every single time - he regulary shots under par - ( mainly 4 or 5 under ) - not many other would have a chance of winning that division - closed shop again to lower handicaps. Where is the competition in that ?

Each division will be dominated by the lower handicaps in that division - a 28 handicapper hasn't got a prayer winning

If people want to reward the lowest gross scores - play scratch comps

Handicap Comps are for a reason - to give everyone the same starting point when they start the game.