Scottish Golf In Decline Again

[Jacko_G]

I think the counties do a great job, especially in developing junior girls. Without the critical mass in clubs it's the counties that bring them together, get them coaching and enthused. Areas I know nothing about, not sure what they do. Funding is different too, it seems. We choose to be county members and pay an annual sub but it seems the clubs directly fund the areas? I need to find out more about that.

Haven't seen the app in the flesh but there was a burst of publicity recently with screenshots from clubs that had been trialing it and it looked good. I'm looking forward to seeing it although I fear the impending legal action from software developers will at the very least delay it.

What a mess!

The counties do a great job are you having a laugh??

They bleed money out of the game and give very little back. Your county/area fee would be better off going into a pot to pay for two or three coaches per area to go round local primary schools and get golf into the curriculum. Actually target schools, primary age kids. Not a select few.

Golf needs opened up to the masses not kept behind closed doors where area's bleed money and give very little back in return. A few girls and elite players is nothing when you can open the game up to thousands with a bit of thought and ambition.

Get rid of and start afresh.

 

[User20204]

I think the counties do a great job!

Really

Of course if you're an elite player in your county then yes, they do a great job, for the rest of us, it's a piss take from them.

I had a lengthy phone conversation last summer with my county's treasurer and asked him what does the ordinary man in the street club member get for his £15 a year, answer from him, tbh not a lot, says it all really doesn't it.

 

[Jacko_G]

My county fee is probably the best value for money of all my golf expenditure each year. They give TONS back in terms of junior development and opportunities for members on a minuscule budget.

I agree with you about getting into schools but that's on a whole different level and needs Scottish Golf and Government to get together.

No they don't they target members sons and daughters and clubs in their area. They are missing out on thousands upon thousands of kids in primary schools.

They are militant backwards organisations who are a millstone to SG. Of course that is just my opinion.

 

[Jacko_G]

I think we're either at cross purposes or you know nothing about the counties. They are quite different from the areas which I presume you are talking about.

Do the counties go into schools and promote and coach the game in your area as they certainly don't in any area I know of.

You say in a previous post they give tonnes back in junior coaching and opportunities for members.

Why not to kids who are not members. Giving money to this organisation helps keep golf "elitist" and behind closed doors, this MUST be stamped out going forward. The game needs to grow and evolve and paying fee's to organisations who only want to promote from within is so backwards.

I appreciate you have your own views and I accept them. I just see a far better way of spending this money and promoting the game. Which is only my opinion of course so I don't expect everyone to agree.

?

 

[Jacko_G]

You're so far wide of the mark. My county runs junior coaching every week and regular events, the girls don't need to be members, generally aren't initially and it's certainly not "elitist" - quite the reverse. It's entirely run by volunteers and is massively successful, giving them opportunities that they can't get anywhere else. This is a good news story and not something that deserves such disdain.

Do they go into schools?

Girls why not boys as well?

 

[SammmeBee]

You're so far wide of the mark. My county runs junior coaching every week and regular events, the girls don't need to be members, generally aren't initially and it's certainly not "elitist" - quite the reverse. It's entirely run by volunteers and is massively successful, giving them opportunities that they can't get anywhere else. This is a good news story and not something that deserves such disdain.

And how many actually turn up every week......?

 

[Jacko_G]

I think you're asking too much. Remember these organisations probably have less members than a typical golf club and their only source of income is the subs from those members. Everyone involved does so on an entirely voluntary basis, often giving up a lot of their time. What they do with those limited resources is a real success story IMO.

For better or worse, the counties and areas are single-sex bodies. That goes back to the amalgamation and all the fallout from that and is a different discussion altogether.

I think we'll agree to disagree and leave it as it.

Personally from my perspective they are a drain who have ideas above their grandeur and think they should be congratulated for offering a very small proportion of golfers some coaching. That to me is a total waste of money when the majority of this coaching goes to junior golfers already in "the system" and members of a club.

That money would be better going into a pot and used on coaches going round schools. Targeting EVERY child at say age 10 (or younger) introducing them to the game and the fun aspect that golf can be. Although I will concede that local clubs need to come onboard and play their part in encouraging said kids to come and play and learn and probably free of charge for a while. Coaching should also be done via professionals not volunteers who may mean well but in reality not have a clue.

Maybe I am dreaming to an extent but I know the current system is (a word I can't type on this forum) and golf numbers are falling year on year. Juniors and school kids of today are the future of golf, the current set up is failing and has been failing for years and years. Shake it up. Or better still rip it up and start again. (could be a song!)

 

[Fish]

You're so far wide of the mark. My county runs junior coaching every week and regular events, the girls don't need to be members, generally aren't initially and it's certainly not "elitist" - quite the reverse. It's entirely run by volunteers and is massively successful, giving them opportunities that they can't get anywhere else. This is a good news story and not something that deserves such disdain.

Where have these girls evolved from, are they family of or friends of existing members?

How have they found out about the coaching, is it advertised and marketed out in the open?

What I’m eluding to, from reading Crawford’s opinions, is, as good as your doing introducing young girls ( and possibly boys) to the game, is the reaching out to them targeted, if so, isn’t that being selective in its own right?

Even posters in local schools that cost nothing would bring an open awareness, or is that not the goal?

 

[Jacko_G]

Where have these girls evolved from, are they family of or friends of existing members?

How have they found out about the coaching, is it advertised and marketed out in the open?

What I’m eluding to, from reading Crawford’s opinions, is, as good as your doing introducing young girls ( and possibly boys) to the game, is the reaching out to them targeted, if so, isn’t that being selective in its own right?

Even posters in local schools that cost nothing would bring an open awareness, or is that not the goal?

Getting girls into golf is a great idea but my understanding is its a drive from Scottish Golf. I think they have set up hubs throughout Scotland. Couldn't tell you what the pick up rates are. Maybe Kaz will be able to shed light on how many are allowed per session and if the participation level is growing or declining although with Covid 19 everything will be shut.

Just need to do the same with boys....

 

[KenL]

Do the counties go into schools and promote and coach the game in your area as they certainly don't in any area I know of.

You say in a previous post they give tonnes back in junior coaching and opportunities for members.

Why not to kids who are not members. Giving money to this organisation helps keep golf "elitist" and behind closed doors, this MUST be stamped out going forward. The game needs to grow and evolve and paying fee's to organisations who only want to promote from within is so backwards.

I appreciate you have your own views and I accept them. I just see a far better way of spending this money and promoting the game. Which is only my opinion of course so I don't expect everyone to agree.

?

Every child in Scotland should be getting a taster of golf in primary 5.
East Lothian has a golf development officer.
My club runs coaching sessions for groups of young kids during the Easter and summer holidays, well they would in other years.

 

[Fish]

England Golf introduced ‘Get into golf’, the marketing of it was huge, not sure how successful it has been, but haven’t Scotland looked to do anything similar, surely a governing body should have tried to piggyback of it?

 

[Grant85]

I think there is a real syetmic issue in Scottish golf that would be hard for Scottish Golf to fix. Granted, they have lost any and all credibility by their arrogance and inaction for years now, but...

Scotland has an appalling record at bringing through elite players. Compared to England and Ireland with similar cultures and golf participation, it's shocking how few top top players have been made in Scotland. This in turn filters into the population and fails to create enthusiasm for the game.

Imagine if we'd had a Graham McDowell or Danny Willett... not necessarily a world no. 1 or even a top 10 player... just a good solid player who would stay in the top 50 for 5 or 10 years, play in the majors and win or compete for a few. Here's hoping Bob McIntyre who shows the most promise of the current crop of 20-somethings making their way on tour.

I'd guess this is in part due to Scottish Golf and the coaching, or lack of, that youngsters can and do access. But it's an issue with the clubs. None of them have money to invest in top coaches or practice facilities. The coaches who are there are likely struggling themselves, trying to make a living in a 7 month window with no range or indoor studio.

As for the clubs... we do have too many clubs. Ultimately it is up to Scottish Golf to support them so they are hardly going to admit that and try and lessen the numbers. And the clubs we have, it seems to be an ill divided world with clubs who attract visitor income and do well or clubs that are focussed on 300 - 500 members and are run on a shoe string every year. The shoe string element is important because it means a lack of facilities and investment with clubs just trying to keep the lights on and keep the greens in decent nick. Not give out free / cheap coaching to potential new golfers and get people into the game.

I'd imagine the current crisis will end quite a few clubs and will ultimately lead to more liquidations. While that could create the way for an improved picture, it's more likely to simply defer the issue as the clubs who are left pick up a few members but still don't do enough to invest and encourage new players into the game.

It is something that Scottish Golf could be doing to knock a few heads together. Get a few clubs to merge or pull resources so as to reduce costs and provide a greater benefit to members and potential members.

 

[Val]

There is currently no high(ish) ranking amateurs in Scotland who will have a sniff of anything decent on tour. Quite sad really.

 

[patricks148]

they appear to have been doing the same thing for the last 20 years with the cash going to elite coaching and jollys for the blazers with the same resaults, falling numbers in membership at clubs and little or no real resualts from elite players in that time.


i am often left wondering what i get for the £30 (£45 this year) i give them every year?

 

[Grant85]

There is currently no high(ish) ranking amateurs in Scotland who will have a sniff of anything decent on tour. Quite sad really.

and it seems at all times there are a few young pros on the go that people pin their hopes on...

Currently; Grant Forrest, Connor Syme, Sam Locke, Ewen Ferguson, David Law, Callum Hill, Bradley Neil etc.
Obviously good luck to them, but I'd be very surprised if these guys make their way to the top 50 in the world.

In years passed there's been plenty of players at a similar level.

There is a career to be had out there floating between the European Tour and Challenge Tour, seeing the world and hoping that you get a big week or a big win that can change your life. Obviously there are guys like Stephen Gallagher, Richie Ramsay and David Drysdale who have been out there grinding for years, making top 115 etc. and I'm sure doing great financially. But it's hardly enough to move the needle with the Scottish public about becoming enthusiastic about the sport.

 

[Jacko_G]

Think you're possibly being a wee bit harsh on young Connor Syme. He has great potential - easily as good as young Bob - just needs the stars to align and get that confidence up.

Law is a a hard one, lost his way a bit after getting overlooked for the Walker Cup at Royal Aberdeen, obviously had very tragic personal circumstances yet has still managed to win a European Tour event.

 

[ger147]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out...

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/revealed-software-companies-in-legal-battle-with-scottish-golf

 

[Jacko_G]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but I will just reiterate that I don't think you understand what the counties are. They don't get any funding from Scottish Golf, they don't have money beyond the subs of those who choose to join.

Absolutely agree we need to get more kids into golf but attacking groups of volunteers who are already doing great things isn't helpful.

I'm very well aware of how they are funded and I am also fully aware of the separate fee we pay towards them. I still think its a pointless fee which takes money away from the game to subsidise people wanting to make crap decisions and feel important.

I'd happily pay £20 a year on top of my fees if it was going into grass roots properly. However I find the gun to my head payment to counties who pretend they do a great job but in reality achieve very very little a little bit annoying to say the least and yes I am aware its only a couple of quid.

 

[Jacko_G]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out...

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/revealed-software-companies-in-legal-battle-with-scottish-golf

I find it all a bit sad to be honest. Someone hasn't done their homework or been very poorly advised.

Its a real shame as the software is a great bit of kit, my mate raves about it. I trust his judgement 100%.

 

[Jacko_G]

You pay NOTHING toward the counties, that's the point!

Your £2.50 is the fee that goes to the Golf Union that your club is a member of. Area and counties are the same thing you pay for them.