Rugby Thread

[Bunkermagnet]

- England: as bad as I've ever seen them. Too reliant on how well Ben Youngs plays, and he never starts tournaments well. Several players should have played their last matches for England. You can blame Farrell & Ford as much as you like, but Youngs was getting ball on a plate and taking an age to get it to his playmakers, who are then immediately under pressure.

I would say drop Farrell as captain, and give that to the one player who is first on each team sheet..Itoje. Farrell has become too much of a loose cannon these days with his dangerous tackles and speaking to the ref.
As much as I like Jones, I think it’s time to only play players in their normal and best positions and stop moving them about to accommodate them in the line up Just because they’re are your friends.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I would say drop Farrell as captain, and give that to the one player who is first on each team sheet..Itoje. Farrell has become too much of a loose cannon these days with his dangerous tackles and speaking to the ref.
As much as I like Jones, I think it’s time to only play players in their normal and best positions and stop moving them about to accommodate them in the line up Just because they’re are your friends.

I wouldn’t give it to whoever decided to take the scrum in front of our own posts, when we got a free kick in the 2nd half. It should have gone deep in the Irish half (off Daley’s howitzer boot), even if we didn’t get the line out.

 

[Grizzly]

- England: as bad as I've ever seen them. Too reliant on how well Ben Youngs plays, and he never starts tournaments well. Several players should have played their last matches for England. You can blame Farrell & Ford as much as you like, but Youngs was getting ball on a plate and taking an age to get it to his playmakers, who are then immediately under pressure.

You obviously haven't been watching for that long then - there were some truly awful performances in the fallow years after 2003. Though the difference then was that for the most part they were reflective of what the group of players available were capable of producing, whereas this England generation ought to be...I don't want to say out of sight, because France have a Golden Generation of their own and Wales, Ireland and Scotland all have top talent available but...

...consider the players who are not in the matchday 23s at the moment and you have a squad that ought to go no worse than 50% against the other sides in the competition - off the top of my head Marler, Barbeary, Williams, Lawes, Ribbans, Dombrandt, Ewers, Sam Simmonds, Spencer, Smith, Radwan, O'Connor, Tuilagi, Odogwu, De Glanville then Dunne, Moon, the South African import at Quins, Launchbury, Ben Curry, Joe Simmonds, JVP, Cocanasiga

And I've already thought of three names I have missed off that list.

Interested to hear who you think fall into that category of played their last games? For me, apart from Mark Wilson, who is great but unlikely to make it to the next WC, I don't think there are any who are not worth consideration. Its just that we need to widen the selection pool so its not just the same names form and structure be damned...

 

[Deleted member 1147]

You obviously haven't been watching for that long then - there were some truly awful performances in the fallow years after 2003. Though the difference then was that for the most part they were reflective of what the group of players available were capable of producing, whereas this England generation ought to be...I don't want to say out of sight, because France have a Golden Generation of their own and Wales, Ireland and Scotland all have top talent available but...

...consider the players who are not in the matchday 23s at the moment and you have a squad that ought to go no worse than 50% against the other sides in the competition - off the top of my head Marler, Barbeary, Williams, Lawes, Ribbans, Dombrandt, Ewers, Sam Simmonds, Spencer, Smith, Radwan, O'Connor, Tuilagi, Odogwu, De Glanville then Dunne, Moon, the South African import at Quins, Launchbury, Ben Curry, Joe Simmonds, JVP, Cocanasiga

And I've already thought of three names I have missed off that list.

Interested to hear who you think fall into that category of played their last games? For me, apart from Mark Wilson, who is great but unlikely to make it to the next WC, I don't think there are any who are not worth consideration. Its just that we need to widen the selection pool so its not just the same names form and structure be damned...

I’ve seen plenty of England rugby, going back to the 5 nations days, and yes they’ve played poorly in the recent past, but this years matches have lacked performance and determination. The team that thrashed NZ playing that badly is awful. Something is wrong. If it’s players not having match practice due Saracens not playing, then pick match prepared players from the premiership.

First names in the chopping block for me would be Billy V, Youngs, Ford and Daley.
I’d like to see Simmonds, Randall, Simmons and Steward get a chance in their place.
I’d also like more chances for players to join the side, not just the squad, and get game time. Otherwise they just get thrown in at the deep end without the required time to find their feet.

 

[Grizzly]

of games

First names in the chopping block for me would be Billy V, Youngs, Ford and Daley.
I’d like to see Simmonds, Randall, Simmons and Steward get a chance in their place.
I’d also like more chances for players to join the side, not just the squad, and get game time. Otherwise they just get thrown in at the deep end without the required time to find their feet.

Neither agreeing or disagreeing but.... Billy has been poor, but should probably be judged when he has had three months of games to get himself properly, fully fit. Youngs is in more than half the Lions sides I see touted. Ford has kicked poorly, but is a passing fly half so that has to be on the selector. And Daly...would it not have been wonderful to see him play 13 on Saturday?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Hasnt Billy V been playing the more reserved game they asked him to play? You can't complain about the player doing what's asked of him. Thats just like the footy teams with Lampard and Gerrard, with everyone complaining Gerrard wasn't playing like he did for club when being played on the opposite side of the pitch and asked to do a different role.

The biggest problem is the virus has screwed everything up, some players have adapted betters others haven't. I still think Farrell should lose the captaincy though, and as kuch as Ben Youngs hasn't been as good as he can be I don't think Dan Robson is any better.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

of games

Neither agreeing or disagreeing but.... Billy has been poor, but should probably be judged when he has had three months of games to get himself properly, fully fit. Youngs is in more than half the Lions sides I see touted. Ford has kicked poorly, but is a passing fly half so that has to be on the selector. And Daly...would it not have been wonderful to see him play 13 on Saturday?

I’d suggest Youngs may be in some Lions sides as s/h is probably our weakest position.
Agreed re Billy
I personally think that Daly’s best position is left wing, and we have too many good wings ahead of him, when everyone is fit. He certainly isn’t a fullback.

 

[GB72]

Good call on steward, having such a great season for us. Our young scrum half is looking a real prospect as well so Youngs will have some competition on his return.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Good call on steward, having such a great season for us. Our young scrum half is looking a real prospect as well so Youngs will have some competition on his return.

Yeah, with Van Poorfleet and Wigglesworth Youngs would be my 3rd choice.

Steward looks like a real star in the making...a big bugger too

 

[Grizzly]

I’d suggest Youngs may be in some Lions sides as s/h is probably our weakest position.
Agreed re Billy
I personally think that Daly’s best position is left wing, and we have too many good wings ahead of him, when everyone is fit. He certainly isn’t a fullback.

It certainly was once Rhys Webb got crocked!

Daly, I agree (and I say this having played there a lot) is not a fullback - he could play 13 or either wing much more successfully. What I found odd was when he was converted to replace Brown, the other wings in the squad - Watson, Norwell and Ashton - were all better full backs than he was so it seemed a big leap just for that boot.

Who plays there come the next WC is an interesting one. Malins is a top player, and he and Furbank both bring the ability to stand in at 10. Steward will only improve, and I could see one of the young fly halves try to convert as well.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Very impressed with the young scrum half and stand off pairing who have been playing for Glasgow the last month or so.
They switched Hastings to full back last week to accommodate the stand off [Thompson?] on Friday.
Two to watch.

 

[GB72]

Lot of tin hat conspiracy theories going around about the release of Scotland players for Friday. Personal feeling, premier League clubs under no obligation to release outside ore agreed international windows, Scotland should have been given the win in the first place and now the French should get the bill for full release of all players. My suspicion, the 6 Nations committee suspected France would bail on the whole tournament if they were awarded a defeat as they threatened to do if any other team had a covid case (the irony) and so it was swept under the rug and now Scotland are disadvantaged and France have known for a week the exact scoreline they need to win the championship and prepare accordingly.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Very impressed with the young scrum half and stand off pairing who have been playing for Glasgow the last month or so.
They switched Hastings to full back last week to accommodate the stand off [Thompson?] on Friday.
Two to watch.

Though he looked tidy and suitably aggressive I'm not sure that Steele is right for Scotland at scrum half. I have little idea of the technicalities of how the scrum half should deliver a pass but I just got the impression that many of Steel's passes were just a bit high and exposed the recipient - though I can certainly appreciate that putting passes to a height that enables the receiver to catch the ball at upper-chest height in front of him rather than lower down could be what's required. Just something I noticed that was different to how I've noticed Ali Price passing it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Though he looked tidy and suitably aggressive I'm not sure that Steele is right for Scotland at scrum half. I have little idea of the technicalities of how the scrum half should deliver a pass but I just got the impression that many of Steel's passes were just a bit high and exposed the recipient - though I can certainly appreciate that putting passes to a height that enables the receiver to catch the ball at upper-chest height in front of him rather than lower down could be what's required. Just something I noticed that was different to how I've noticed Ali Price passing it.

Steele plays for Harlequins I believe.
I was talking about the two uncapped young Glasgow Warriors players.
Steele did OK against Italy, not our strongest position at the mo.
Thought Cherry had a good game, at least he can throw a ball straight.

 

[Val]

I would say drop Farrell as captain, and give that to the one player who is first on each team sheet..Itoje. Farrell has become too much of a loose cannon these days with his dangerous tackles and speaking to the ref.
As much as I like Jones, I think it’s time to only play players in their normal and best positions and stop moving them about to accommodate them in the line up Just because they’re are your friends.

Your first 5 words in bold were enough.

 

[Val]

Very impressed with the young scrum half and stand off pairing who have been playing for Glasgow the last month or so.
They switched Hastings to full back last week to accommodate the stand off [Thompson?] on Friday.
Two to watch.

Jamie Dobie and Ross Thompson are Scotlands future half back pairing, I believe Jamie Dobie will be a Scotland captain in the future.

 

[Val]

Though he looked tidy and suitably aggressive I'm not sure that Steele is right for Scotland at scrum half. I have little idea of the technicalities of how the scrum half should deliver a pass but I just got the impression that many of Steel's passes were just a bit high and exposed the recipient - though I can certainly appreciate that putting passes to a height that enables the receiver to catch the ball at upper-chest height in front of him rather than lower down could be what's required. Just something I noticed that was different to how I've noticed Ali Price passing it.

Steele is not in the class of Price who has amongst the most accurate and speed of passes in world rugby. Hugely under rated and a shame he's not had a good 6N as for me he's a Lions bolter

 

[Val]

Lot of tin hat conspiracy theories going around about the release of Scotland players for Friday. Personal feeling, premier League clubs under no obligation to release outside ore agreed international windows, Scotland should have been given the win in the first place and now the French should get the bill for full release of all players. My suspicion, the 6 Nations committee suspected France would bail on the whole tournament if they were awarded a defeat as they threatened to do if any other team had a covid case (the irony) and so it was swept under the rug and now Scotland are disadvantaged and France have known for a week the exact scoreline they need to win the championship and prepare accordingly.

Its a shambles quite frankly, it also disadvantages all clubs who have Scotland players in their ranks for the following weeks European ties too.

Im not keen on forfeiting matches and although the 6N committee would be keen to complete quickly they could easily have waited till the season was about done then played it late May/early June

 

[GB72]

Its a shambles quite frankly, it also disadvantages all clubs who have Scotland players in their ranks for the following weeks European ties too.

Im not keen on forfeiting matches and although the 6N committee would be keen to complete quickly they could easily have waited till the season was about done then played it late May/early June

It laughable, numerous breaches of covid protocols, little understanding of what a bubble actually means and yet the French Rugby Union find no fault, the 6 Nations do nothing and Scotland are short of a full squad and have had to pay to release those players they do have. Plus, how big an advantage do you need in knowing the exact scoreline you need and having a week to prepare. That said, Scotland are masters at raining on people's parade and I hope that they bring one of those special performances out of the bag on Friday.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It laughable, numerous breaches of covid protocols, little understanding of what a bubble actually means and yet the French Rugby Union find no fault, the 6 Nations do nothing and Scotland are short of a full squad and have had to pay to release those players they do have. Plus, how big an advantage do you need in knowing the exact scoreline you need and having a week to prepare. That said, Scotland are masters at raining on people's parade and I hope that they bring one of those special performances out of the bag on Friday.

Tony Stanger leaps high and lands on Will Carling's expectations

btw - is TS still involved in the game ?