Roll Back Discussion

[Imurg]

Sorry, I'm loads of pages behind and I don't really have time to catch up all the posts, so forgive me if this has already been answered, but..

If they limit the ball that all of us are using - how many yards lost are we actually, definitively talking for us amateurs? If I hit my drive 230 yards total, on average, how many yards will I lose? If it's like 3 or 4 then fine I guess - probably not that noticeable. If it's more like 10 or more then I'm going to be upset, as that essentially means having to hit two clubs longer into every decent length par 4.

And how on earth would they regulate it? Some guys out there now are still using balls that are 20 years old. I always use found balls for provisionals and so on - and the found balls will be the old kind for many years to come. Is every club going to have an official on the 1st tee checking your balls? (so to speak)

We don't know.
They haven't announced full details yet.
People are saying that the Pros may lose 20 yards which means we will too.....
I doubt that very much.
It's all speculation and at times quite rabid speculation too...

 

[Voyager EMH]

Sorry, I'm loads of pages behind and I don't really have time to catch up all the posts, so forgive me if this has already been answered, but..

If they limit the ball that all of us are using - how many yards lost are we actually, definitively talking for us amateurs? If I hit my drive 230 yards total, on average, how many yards will I lose? If it's like 3 or 4 then fine I guess - probably not that noticeable. If it's more like 10 or more then I'm going to be upset, as that essentially means having to hit two clubs longer into every decent length par 4.

And how on earth would they regulate it? Some guys out there now are still using balls that are 20 years old. I always use found balls for provisionals and so on - and the found balls will be the old kind for many years to come. Is every club going to have an official on the 1st tee checking your balls? (so to speak)

You will lose exactly one and a half yards off your drive, if the ball you are using finds its way onto the banned list.
If the ball you are using remains legal, no problem.
The procedure for checking whether a player is, or is not, using conforming balls will remain exactly as it is at the moment.

 

[williamalex1]

I don't think I hit any ball hard enough to compress it that much. I only hit my driver 180 ish, what distance will I lose?

 

[Orikoru]

We don't know.
They haven't announced full details yet.
People are saying that the Pros may lose 20 yards which means we will too.....
I doubt that very much.
It's all speculation and at times quite rabid speculation too...

Well yes, I've heard that's relative to your speed/distance, so if a pro loses 20 yards and we lose 3 yards then fine, whatever. If I lose 20 yards then I might as well pack it in because I'll be hitting 5 wood every second shot.

You will lose exactly one and a half yards off your drive, if the ball you are using finds its way onto the banned list.
If the ball you are using remains legal, no problem.
The procedure for checking whether a player is, or is not, using conforming balls will remain exactly as it is at the moment.

Yeah, it just seems completely impossible to police. You're going to have people stocking up massively on the current golf balls - maybe even a black market of people selling the old-type balls for years and years until stocks eventually run out. At best you're going to have a 50-50 split of people using the correct golf balls or not for at least five years I would say.

"If the ball you are using remains legal, no problem." - this is interesting to me. Are you saying it might be the case that only the hard-compression balls are taken out of pay and the lower compression ones might still be ok? I'd be happy with that solution as I play lower compression premium balls typically.

 

[Orikoru]

I don't think I hit any ball hard enough to compress it that much. I only hit my driver 180 ish, what distance will I lose?

You might even gain distance.

 

[RichA]

Why is the mechanism relevant ? All that matters is the result and the technical is behind the scenes. Its not as if most of us know the why and how of the current design. The mechanism may be of some curiosity interest, but really is only a concern for the ball manufacturers, and understandable by polymer engineers and experienced ball design people.

Physics.
Limiting maximum compression has been floated as a possible solution. It should have no impact on the balls that most amateurs are using.
It seems more relevant to the average golfer than most of the discussion and, at a glance, the simplest way of doing it.

 

[Klimski]

Interesting discussion on this week's Hack it Out podcast with guest Sasho Mackenzie. He is of the opinion that it is unlikely to reduce driving distance at a professional level, though it may alter a little the participants and favour those who can raise their clubhead speed to accommodate the new ball. He reckons that as at an elite level many people can lift their clubhead speed it is likely that the current distances are around optimum for them otherwise they would already be driving a further.

I was listening to this as well. My thoughts: firstly, the roll back is not necessary. At the elite level course setup should solve any issues (I don't really see any). At the amateur level, the game is bloody hard. Secondly, I have to disagree with Sasho that pro's can simply raise clubhead speed. If they could, they would be doing that already. However, he does raise a good point that the roll back favours long hitters. So it's futile in that regard. Finally, there are many more creative ways of limiting what pro competitors can do: Number of clubs, golf shaft length, reduce driver head size back to 300cc. But, as I said before, it mainly comes down to course setup. Make it much more risky to bomb and gouge. For example: make all spectator areas out of bounds. Ball roll back is senseless in my 18 hcp opinion.

 

[Mandofred]

I was listening to this as well. My thoughts: firstly, the roll back is not necessary. At the elite level course setup should solve any issues (I don't really see any). At the amateur level, the game is bloody hard. Secondly, I have to disagree with Sasho that pro's can simply raise clubhead speed. If they could, they would be doing that already. However, he does raise a good point that the roll back favours long hitters. So it's futile in that regard. Finally, there are many more creative ways of limiting what pro competitors can do: Number of clubs, golf shaft length, reduce driver head size back to 300cc. But, as I said before, it mainly comes down to course setup. Make it much more risky to bomb and gouge. For example: make all spectator areas out of bounds. Ball roll back is senseless in my 18 hcp opinion.

You are against changing the ball.....but you are fine with changing the clubs??? Why would making club changes be ok (and making the game harder as some would argue), but changing the ball upsets people?

 

[Mandofred]

I'm sitting here just shaking my head. People keep wanting to make the game easier. Why? If everybody could just show up and play par golf or better....where's the challenge? I don't want golf to be easy.....easy is boring. I want to be frustrated....elated....wishing for a beer.... I'd be fine with going back to just blades and smaller headed drivers. I won't turn down the advances they have made....but I wouldn't cry about it if they did roll back the clubs. Easy?....if I wanted easy I'd stay on the couch.

Hey, let's make the holes bigger so bad putters won't feel bad. And....have the greens slope to the hole (and a big drain for all the water) so all you have to do is get it on the green and the balls automatically rolls in. Or...maybe dead flat greens so you don't have to worry about that pesky ball moving sideways. How about having all fairways with sides that slope up so your ball always rolls back to the middle?

I'm just mad because my flight was cancelled today....I need to moan....

 

[pendodave]

Rory says it best for me.
What not being sponsored by titleist does for your typing fingers...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1731258696032793009

 

[Backache]

Sorry, I'm loads of pages behind and I don't really have time to catch up all the posts, so forgive me if this has already been answered, but..

If they limit the ball that all of us are using - how many yards lost are we actually, definitively talking for us amateurs? If I hit my drive 230 yards total, on average, how many yards will I lose? If it's like 3 or 4 then fine I guess - probably not that noticeable. If it's more like 10 or more then I'm going to be upset, as that essentially means having to hit two clubs longer into every decent length par 4.

And how on earth would they regulate it? Some guys out there now are still using balls that are 20 years old. I always use found balls for provisionals and so on - and the found balls will be the old kind for many years to come. Is every club going to have an official on the 1st tee checking your balls? (so to speak)

The suggestion is that the way the law will be written is that the maximum distance a ball can travel on the measuring equipment will remain unchanged but the speed used to measure this distance will be increased.
How manufacturers will make the balls to comply with this will be up to them.Most of the current supposition appears to be that the drop off in distance will be equivalent at different swing speeds about 5% so a t 230 yds you would expect to lose about 11.5 yds.
Some people are positing that this is not the case and it may not be but I have seen little evidence produced to say why it will not be the case.

 

[Orikoru]

The suggestion is that the way the law will be written is that the maximum distance a ball can travel on the measuring equipment will remain unchanged but the speed used to measure this distance will be increased.
How manufacturers will make the balls to comply with this will be up to them.Most of the current supposition appears to be that the drop off in distance will be equivalent at different swing speeds about 5% so a t 230 yds you would expect to lose about 11.5 yds.
Some people are positing that this is not the case and it may not be but I have seen little evidence produced to say why it will not be the case.

Well, my handicap will be going up then. That'll mean hitting 7 wood instead of 6/7 iron so I'll be missing a hell of a lot more greens. Back to playing off 18 then, exciting times.

 

[D-S]

Well, my handicap will be going up then. That'll mean hitting 7 wood instead of 6/7 iron so I'll be missing a hell of a lot more greens. Back to playing off 18 then, exciting times.

If what some are saying is true, you may well be losing 8 yards off your 160 yard approach shot too.

 

[Orikoru]

If what some are saying is true, you may well be losing 8 yards off your 160 yard approach shot too.

Well that's why I'm saying I'll have to hit two clubs longer rather than one club longer. Lose 11 yards off the drive (one club) and lose 6-8 yards off your longer irons too (another club).

 

[Imurg]

If they can currently make a ball that barely spins when hit at 120mph but spins at 10k rpm when hit with a wedge at 80mph I'm sure that within 4 years they'll be able to produce a ball that loses 10% at 120mph but loses nothing at 95....
IF the rollback produces a loss of 10-15 yards at amateur speeds the will be a massive rebellion against it.
I think the governing bodies may have thought of this.......

 

[Backache]

If they can currently make a ball that barely spins when hit at 120mph but spins at 10k rpm when hit with a wedge at 80mph I'm sure that within 4 years they'll be able to produce a ball that loses 10% at 120mph but loses nothing at 95....
IF the rollback produces a loss of 10-15 yards at amateur speeds the will be a massive rebellion against it.
I think the governing bodies may have thought of this.......

They may be able to we don't know , however there are a couple of reasons why I am not particularly sure about this .
One is that they clearly initially wanted to bifurcate.

Secondly there already exists a reason to give lower swing speeds an extra 10 yds it would be a big selling point to ladies, seniors and lower swing speed players of all sorts but whenever I look for independent reviews of so called distance balls for the lower swing speed golfer of whom I am one they never confer an advantage in distance over the other balls. If the technology exists to do this why is it not in use at the moment?

 

[wjemather]

They may be able to we don't know , however there are a couple of reasons why I am not particularly sure about this .
One is that they clearly initially wanted to bifurcate.

Gaining acceptance of bifurcation on the ball would have paved the way for further bifurcation relating to the driver (and a few other things) - something that is probably even more desirable than ball regulations but really would make the game more difficult for amateurs if applied universally.

 

[Bdill93]

My thoughts -

Annoying as it will make some courses harder for the mere mortals that play the game. Some drives may no longer comfortably carry hazards etc. which they may have before.

Annoying as literally every ball in everyone's bag at every golf club in the world may soon be useless.

Positive that the tour pros may be able to play on a few courses they currently cant.

So no real gain for me and therefore its a terrible news day.

 

[Wabinez]

Some drives may no longer comfortably carry hazards etc. which they may have before.

so the course architect got it right, and the roll back brings back the hazards into play - so courses play as they are designed.

why is that not a good thing? It forces people to make a decision. Either the risk or failing, or the safe option and have a longer 2nd shot.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

For those concerned about having to hit more club and therefore missing more greens.
How many greens do you currently hit with say 7 or 6 irons, and how many with 7 wood etc ?

Will it really be such a big difference?