Roll Back Discussion

[Crow]

I get the physics. I didn’t quite phrase my reply correctly.

Why should longer hitters be disproportionately effected by a roll back in equipment?

Most posts are about people complaining that they're happy about the Pros being reigned in but not amateurs, I was saying that a lighter ball will affect the Pros but not so much the amateurs.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I don't know about your course but most of our tee sets are only about 5-10 yards apart on most holes, not 20 or 30.

From our yellow tees to the back tees there’s over 900 yards total distance difference. From the Red tees that’s doubled.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

And took the serve and volley out of the game..boo

I agree that it went a little too far. Way too much baseline play now, particularly in the ladies game . That's as big a snooze fest as ace after ace. Tough to get the balance right.

 

[Crow]

I don't know about your course but most of our tee sets are only about 5-10 yards apart on most holes, not 20 or 30.

The ball change wouldn't make 20 or 30 yards difference to your drives.

 

[BiMGuy]

Most posts are about people complaining that they're happy about the Pros being reigned in but not amateurs, I was saying that a lighter ball will affect the Pros but not so much the amateurs.

Apologies, I thought you were talking just about the pros

 

[Crow]

If it’s better are you playing with 20 year old equipment?

No, 40 to 100 year old equipment, and loving it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I didnt say that. In any way.

Sorry re read it - so how will we be in a worse position in 30 years ?

42 years ago the average distance driving was 280 yards , last year it was 299 yards ( on tour )

So in 40 years it’s increased by 20 yards

In 1997 Daly was the first to be going over 300 yards average during the season

A lot of the more modern technology has been about “forgiveness” - keeping the ball straighter etc

Is it really been that damaging to the sport ?

How many people have stopped or given up because some pros hit the ball a little bit further ?

Do the big hitters dominate the game ?

Or is it all down to perception?

BDC goes hulk - wins a few comps but doesn’t dominate yet people start to complain ?


It’s all a nonsense - sports evolve , players improve themselves physically, the better players with better technique and physically stronger hit the ball further - not because of the ball

 

[Orikoru]

From our yellow tees to the back tees there’s over 900 yards total distance difference. From the Red tees that’s doubled.

Right now our whites and yellows are identical on all but two holes because they're off mats! On the scorecard the difference is still only about 250 yards. There's only a significant difference on about 5 holes.

 

[wjemather]

I find it quite amusing how many people who barely hit their driver 200 yards, and often play whatever random ball they just found in a hedge, think they would even notice the effect of a rollback of (or restriction on) the ball.

 

[Swango1980]

I know we all like different things, as this thread shows. However, I can vividly remember my introduction to the game of golf.

I had gone round to my Great Grandparents house. Usual stuff, my great gran made me some salad cream sandwiches and a kit kat. Meanwhile, my great grand dad was sitting on his chair, watching some strange thing on the TV. I didn't pay too much attention, but he said "crikey, you've got to watch this guy. It is incredible, it is like he has a turnip on the end of his club, and the ball goes for miles". I instantly paid attention, and was fascinated. Turns out, this was 1995 and the occasion was John Daly winning The Open at St Andrews. I am almost certain that I would not have paid as much attention if it was some golfer smacking a ball 240 yards off the tee, and plotting his way around the course.

I was no real fan of Bryson DeChambeau, but since he started working hard to launch the ball as far as he could, he became fascinating. Players like Rory, Bubba and DJ will get lots of fans simply because it is amazing to see how far they can hit the ball. There are even players that aren't actually that good (relative to their peers), but get a lot of attention because of how far they hit the ball. Thinking players like Champ, JB Holmes and Garrigus.

I think the fact that because players can potentially hit the ball so far, it gives us a wider range of characteristics from one golfer to another. From those that are absolute monsters, to those that can plot their way around the golf course. It allows individual golfers to stand out more when they are amongst the best in one particular area. It allows golf courses to stand out more, as they may favour different styles of play. I like this much more than the thought of more golfers having to play a certain way at most/all courses, because the golf course demands it and the length of how far a player hits it is less relevant.

Besides, at elite sport, these guys are athletes. If they train hard to hit the ball 350 yards, or they have an immense amount of natural flexibility and fast twitch muscle fibres to hit it ridiculously far, fair play to them. And, at our level, I am almost certain the technology has improved participation, not made it worse. There will be many factors, of course. But, being a member of any sporting club has probably struggled since decades ago, given all the distractions we now have, compared to a time where a whole family would join a club and just make that part of their weekly routine. Golf club membership has gone up and down over the years, financial depressions not helping. However, I'm guessing there was a boom in the early Tiger era. Probably not just because of Tiger, but because the new tech made it a lot more exciting. It is still a very popular sport, I certainly see no signs of people turning their backs on the sport as they are bored with how far the ball goes? Of course, I do agree that we shouldn't allow brand new materials in the future that allow us to hit the ball 400 yards, with the same swing that would only go 250 yards today.

Incidentally, I started playing frequently from 2005. I was a member at one course from 2005 to 2021, before moving to my new place. I can honestly say that, in general, I saw no difference in the length people were driving the ball in 2021 to what they were doing in 2005 at my course. I never felt "no one could ever drive it this far, now many do it frequently" on any particular hole on the course. That includes comparing what some of the younger members were doing in 2021 to what they were doing in 2005 (to rule out aging as a factor). Not saying the average length hadn't increased, just saying there didn't seem to be any noticeable difference.

 

[Crow]

Watch the Shells Wonderful world of Golf films and you will see pros crushing it 300 yards with wooden head clubs and balata covered wound golf balls. Nicklaus was driving the 18th at St. Andrews before Tiger was born.

A 300 yard drive was a very rare event, the 18th at St Andrews can have a very fast running fairway. And don't forget that the smaller ball was often being used back then.

On Shell's Wonderful World of Golf the pros typically drive around 250 or 260 yards.

 

[Crow]

butg olf is pretty unique in that your opponents can’t touch your ball.
only you are in control ( mostly) nobody else can snooker you.

Bring back the stymie!

 

[wjemather]

42 years ago the average distance driving was 280 yards , last year it was 299 yards ( on tour )

So in 40 years it’s increased by 20 yards

That's means a 2 club difference for the next shot; 3 when you add in the increased difference for irons. That's huge.

A lot of the more modern technology has been about “forgiveness” - keeping the ball straighter etc

Is it really been that damaging to the sport ?

It has certainly been damaging to certain aspects of the sport. The resultant influx of 250+ yard par 3s and 600+ yard par 5s is an abomination. Strategy should be a large part of the game, but distance with impunity (due to forgiveness increasing accuracy without significant loss of distance, and the ease of hitting an 8 iron from the rough rather than a 5 iron) has reduced it to an afterthought. Added distance has also necessitated ludicrous extensions to back tees (even going beyond the boundaries of the course in many cases; Old Course, Augusta National, Merion, etc.) to accommodate elite golf and bring design features back into play; better than average amateurs would simply need to move back a tee for the same effect.

Do the big hitters dominate the game ?

They always have, and always will.

It’s all a nonsense - sports evolve , players improve themselves physically, the better players with better technique and physically stronger hit the ball further - not because of the ball

Senior pros, a semi-immobile Tiger Woods, and (fat) middle-aged men are not hitting the ball farther than they did when they were in their prime for any other reason than equipment.

 

[Neilds]

If they change the rules to make the ball go less distance, the big hitters will still hit the new ball further than the short hitters hit the new ball - how will this level the playing field if that is what they want?

 

[Beezerk]

If they change the rules to make the ball go less distance, the big hitters will still hit the new ball further than the short hitters hit the new ball - how will this level the playing field if that is what they want?

Won’t the distance between the longer and shorter hitters be slightly reduced? Not by a great amount I imagine but it will definitely close the gap…in my head anyway
Besides is it not more about stopping them brutalising golf courses?

 

[GB72]

If they change the rules to make the ball go less distance, the big hitters will still hit the new ball further than the short hitters hit the new ball - how will this level the playing field if that is what they want?

I think that the aim is to level the playing field against the course rather thant the rest of the field. St Andrews becomes too short a course to be an Open venue and over time those big tourist green fees are going to slow down (me being cynical again).

 

[BiMGuy]

But we repeatedly get told on here that equipment hasn’t improved for 20 or 30 years! So has it or hasn’t it?

A large part of the distance gained by pros is their intention to do so, that they are now fitter, stronger and have a better understanding of biomechanics than previous generations.

 

[clubchamp98]

Then some new companies will spring up who are prepared to make it, and they'll get all the headlines from winners using their balls.
Wonder how long the established ball companies will let that happen?

They won’t sell them to us for years .
a change will be pro only If any.
companies can’t make no profit for 5/6/7 years until ams come on the market.

 

[D-S]

Female participation was higher around the 1900s than it is now.

Really where did you get that stat?
Our club celebrated 100 years of Women's golf at our club 2 years ago and that section was certainly one of the very first in the area back in 1921.

 

[clubchamp98]

Bring back the stymie!

Not to sure the GK will appreciate a wedge off the green