Provisional Ball / Declaring Ball lost

[scottkw2003]

I was playing 2 other members in club comp ( stableford) today when the following happened :

400yds par 4 over a hill so the bell rings and off we all drive,

we get to top of hill only to find the 3 in front of us searching for balls,

one guy who is a big hitter pacing up and down trying to find his ball down the right hand side,

after a short while he takes another ball from his bag and then goes back 300yds to tee off another ball.

the other 2 players waved us through so we all played our 2nd shots onto green,

1 player in my 3 ball goes down the left and rings the bell , then finds the lost ball from the other team in front,( on opposite side to where they were looking )

he then tees off, we tell the other team and 1 of them runs up hill and tells him it is found, so he picks provisional up and carries on playing with 1st ball.

when he went back to play provisional ball surely he is declaring his first ball lost.

any ideas welcome

Cheers
Scott

 

[DCB]

after a short while he takes another ball from his bag and then goes back 300yds to tee off another ball.

So he has played another ball from the tee, it's not a provisional, it is the ball in play. The first ball is now no longer in play.

 

[rulefan]

when he went back to play provisional ball surely he is declaring his first ball lost.

Scott

You cannot declare a ball lost. The Rule was changed in 1976.

It would have been deemed lost if more than 5 minutes had elapsed since he started looking for it.

A ball can only become lost in the following circumstances:

A ball is deemed "lost" if:

a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or

b. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or

c. The player has put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance under Rule 26-1a, 27-1 or 28a; or

d. The player has put another ball into play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1b or c); or

e. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.

 

[Foxholer]

You cannot declare a ball lost. The Rule was changed in 1976.

And that declaration/abondonment was only introduced in 1972.

So a Rule that only lasted 1 4-year edition of the Rules jas caused a lot of chaos sunce!

Just to clarify/reinforce. Returning to the tee/previous shot point dors not mean the ball is lost, so if it's found within 5 minutes of the search starting - and another ball hasn't been put into play - then the original ball is the one in play. Time is allowed to identify the ball. Piuuing a ball in play is defined as making a stroke if from the tee, or dropping a ball if not from the tee.

 

[rulefan]

In fact I now find that declaring a ball lost was introduced 1n 1956 and removed in 1964.

He could abandon in in 1972 and that was changed in 1976.

 

[Foxholer]

In fact I now find that declaring a ball lost was introduced 1n 1956 and removed in 1964.

He could abandon in in 1972 and that was changed in 1976.

It does seem the struggled with this area for some time.

There was even a time when you could declare a ball unplayable and use the Provisional Ball! (1920-1968)

 

[Baldy Bouncer]

Getting back to the OP, basically he cheated and his fellow competitors are ignorant of the rules and should be shot at dawn.:thup:

 

[Foxholer]

Getting back to the OP, basically he cheated and his fellow competitors are ignorant of the rules and should be shot at dawn.:thup:

Well he broke a rule.

Ho'd you do in the Rules quiz? http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-Quiz.aspx

At least he/they knew sufficient about Etiquette to let you through!

 

[Baldy Bouncer]

Well he broke a rule.

Ho'd you do in the Rules quiz? http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-Quiz.aspx

At least he/they knew sufficient about Etiquette to let you through!

What are you talking about?.....I wasn`t there.
Did you not see the Winking and Thumbs Up Emos at the end of my sentence? My reply was supposed to be taken tongue in cheek, but they don`t do an Emo for that. Basically, I was trying to have a little laugh with the OP. How did that "sense of humour bypass op" go btw?
Yes I do the Rules Quiz often and do quite well most of the time. Thanks for your concern.

 

[North Mimms]

The "lost" ball was found (but not identified by its owner) before he hit another ball off the tee.
Was it found within 5 minutes?

 

[Colin L]

The "lost" ball was found (but not identified by its owner) before he hit another ball off the tee.
Was it found within 5 minutes?

We don't know from the OP whether this ball was found within five minutes. If it was found within 5 minutes, the player could have, if he had known about the find, trudged all the way back to the ball to identify it because he had not yet played another ball from the tee. The time in getting back to the ball would not count in the five minutes.

As it stands in the circumstance described in the OP, however, the five minute question is irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether the ball that was found was the original ball; it doesn't matter if it was found within 5 minutes; the ball played from the tee is the ball in play.

Just to be ridiculous, if the ball was found within 5 minutes and the player had gone all the way back down the fairway and identified it has his, he could then have deemed it unplayable and gone all the way back to the tee again to play from where he had played his previous stroke. He would have been mightily popular with his fellow competitors and the competitors behind him, but he could have done it legitimately. But I did say I was being ridiculous.

 

[Foxholer]

Just to be ridiculous, if the ball was found within 5 minutes and the player had gone all the way back down the fairway and identified it has his, he could then have deemed it unplayable and gone all the way back to the tee again to play from where he had played his previous stroke. He would have been mightily popular with his fellow competitors and the competitors behind him, but he could have done it legitimately. But I did say I was being ridiculous.

That's not so riiculous!

Very nearly happened to me in 3rd round of (4 rounds) Club Champs. I'd played a provisional, and was about to play that - from across the other side of the fairway of course 1st was found. Trudged back across and up the bank into bracken and sure enough, mine but clearly unplayable and nowhere else to go except back up a huge steep hill to the tee. The comment was 'Someone must have a good score going!' which was correct (1 over off 9 after 9!). Thank heavens the Drive as Ok! Only shots I dropped on the back 9!

@BaldyB. Indeed, and I've stated myself. A 'Sarcasm' Emo is definitely needed! Apologies for the misconstrual!