Plug in hybrid thread

[Deleted member 23270]

Loads of info in the EV thread but what about the pros and cons of a hybrid? The vast majority of my driving is around town these days but I still do several long trips a year for holidays and golf.
A hybrid that does 30 or so miles on a charge sounds ideal but what are they like when the battery runs out and I'm driving purely on petrol/diesel? Some of the quoted MPG figures are nuts (100+ MPG) but we all know that is in selected conditions. Am I better to stick to my current diesel which averages 40mpg overall and 50+ on the motorway, go electric and suck up the forced charging stops on runs or is a hybrid the best option?

Over to you people that have more experience than me in this minefield.................

 

[bobmac]

I guess a lot depends on your budget.
If you can afford a newish EV, they have a longer range so fewer stops, but more expensive.
If most of your journeys are under 30 miles a hybrid may suit you but why carry a big heavy engine and gearbox around you rarely use?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If you go plug in hybrid then choose your car wisely. A friend had a Mitsubishi Outlander Phev and that is a heck of a weight to be propelled by a petrol engine. He averaged 25-30mpg on big journeys, catastrophic economy, thankfully his company payed. He was hugely relieved to move it on, even though he was not paying for the fuel, it just felt wrong.

The newer ones are better, @Robster59 is your man I believe. He has a Skoda Superb I believe and that is much better economy wise.

I looked at the Superb plug in a couple of years ago when I still had a company car. It made sense tax wise at that time but it was very much a compromise. I would not buy one privately, certainly.

I'm probably in your shoes and I won't be changing my 2.0l D yet. Too many long journeys and until they reduce I think that type of car still makes the most sense.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

I guess a lot depends on your budget.
If you can afford a newish EV, they have a longer range so fewer stops, but more expensive.
If most of your journeys are under 30 miles a hybrid may suit you but why carry a big heavy engine and gearbox around you rarely use?

I'd probably be looking to spend £20-25k so rules out most 'decent' EVs. A good BMW 330e is in my price range though.

 

[srixon 1]

Go fully electric. Then, if you do an occasional long trip hire a petrol/diesel car.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

At the risk of aggravating some, my wife had a self charging hybrid Yaris for just about 2 years. Yes she got pretty good MPG (probably averaging 50-60mpg) but the car would jump out of EV mode when you got to real world speed or went further than a couple of miles. It was also pretty gutless (because the engine for a hybrid is an Atkinson cycle and not Otto)’it doesn’t have the punch an equivalent size petrol engine has.Quite a few times my wife struggled when overtaking, so the car went a lot sooner than was intended.

 

[theoneandonly]

I'd probably be looking to spend £20-25k so rules out most 'decent' EVs. A good BMW 330e is in my price range though.

I don't think the 330e can be driven on battery only. Certainly the original model couldnt.

 

[bobmac]

 

[hovis]

At the risk of aggravating some, my wife had a self charging hybrid Yaris for just about 2 years. Yes she got pretty good MPG (probably averaging 50-60mpg) but the car would jump out of EV mode when you got to real world speed or went further than a couple of miles. It was also pretty gutless (because the engine for a hybrid is an Atkinson cycle and not Otto)’it doesn’t have the punch an equivalent size petrol engine has.Quite a few times my wife struggled when overtaking, so the car went a lot sooner than was intended.

Yeh, self charging hybrids and normal hybrids are like that. They're called self charging but it takes power to create power. Unless it's from solar on the car roof there's no such thing as self charging. You can also get a bit back from the energy recovery system from the brakes but it's very little.
I personally don't know how they get away with it.
My plug in hybrid flies when it's in battery mode only. It will do about 80 before it needs help from the engine.

 

[Fade and Die]

Go fully electric. Then, if you do an occasional long trip hire a petrol/diesel car.

Yes this was my thinking until i got a quote for two weeks hire for a full size car (not in the 6 weeks hollidays) £2500. plus a week over the new year £1500.

£4k for two trips! No thanks.

 

[Oddsocks]

The original 330e was nothing but a tax dodge, the later 69reg 330e was awesome and was literally a low tax sports car. Great smile per mile rate but mpg not so much. The newer one had improved mileage but you’d never get 30 miles out of it. I used to charge a lot on A roads and motorways then flick into hybrid mode around town.

I had the same as the one that bob linked even down to the colour. Awesome car!

I’d have another in a heart beat but opt for the touring as you will not get a trolley and clubs in the boot without dropping the 40% seat.

 

[Green Man]

i

I don't think the 330e can be driven on battery only. Certainly the original model couldnt.

It can

 

[Robster59]

As @Lord Tyrion has said, I have the Skoda Superb iV hybrid. It's a company car. My previous one was the Skoda Superb 2.0 diesel, so I have been able to make a comparison between the two. The difference in company tax was so substantial, it was a no-brainer to make the move.
I'll try to itemise a few.

• The addition of batteries compromises the boot space. Thankfully, in the Superb it already has a big boot, but it is shallower in the hybrid as the batteries are under the boot. However, there is nowhere to put a spare wheel as all the underfloor space is taken.
• Although they say up to 35 miles from a full charge, I've never seen more than 30 showing on the dashboard.
• Charging time is pretty long as it will only take a max 3.6Kw, whatever the charger it connects to. This equates to 5-6 hours on a 3-pin plug, and 4-5 hours on a direct charger.
• You can re-charge the battery via the engine on motorways, but that does drag the MPG down to the mid 20's so it has an impact.
• You get two charging cables, one a 3-pin, and one a Type-2.
• The engine is a 1.4 litre turbo petrol, which I thought may be an issue, but it's the same BHP as the diesel and pulls pretty well. In fact, I've even towed a caravan with it, with no issues.
• The car is nice and smooth to drive, with a nice auto. Even on petrol it is not obtrusive.
• The car defaults to starting in electric and then moves to hybrid when the battery gets low.
• The transformation between electric and petrol is handled by the car and is pretty much seamless.
• On long journeys I tend to put it into hybrid mode so that it runs on a combination of petrol and electric. That's when you tend to see VERY good MPG.
• If running only on petrol with the batteries flat, I can get circa 40mpg around town and 50+mpg on the motorway, so still a pretty good economy.
• The petrol tank is also slightly smaller (60 litres).

Have I seen any major differences compared to running on a diesel? Mainly the fact that I do keep it charged, something I never had to worry about with a diesel. Fuel is cheaper, so there is a saving there.

They're what I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[cliveb]

We currently have 2 petrol cars, and they're going to need replacing at some point. I reckon what makes sense is to get a small EV runaround for local journeys, plus a PHEV to use in pure electric mode locally but enables us to do long trips without any range/recharge anxiety.

Good to hear that Robster gets decent mpg when running on petrol. Right now the Octavia PHEV looks like our best option.

The thing that concerns me is what is going to happen to battery tech in the near to medium future. Does buying a EV soon mean we miss out on much better tech that comes out later?
Will improved battery tech find its way into PHEVs? How much longer will the car manufacturers keep an interest in PHEVs?

 

[Oddsocks]

As @Lord Tyrion has said, I have the Skoda Superb iV hybrid. It's a company car. My previous one was the Skoda Superb 2.0 diesel, so I have been able to make a comparison between the two. The difference in company tax was so substantial, it was a no-brainer to make the move.
I'll try to itemise a few.

• The addition of batteries compromises the boot space. Thankfully, in the Superb it already has a big boot, but it is shallower in the hybrid as the batteries are under the boot. However, there is nowhere to put a spare wheel as all the underfloor space is taken.
• Although they say up to 35 miles from a full charge, I've never seen more than 30 showing on the dashboard.
• Charging time is pretty long as it will only take a max 3.6Kw, whatever the charger it connects to. This equates to 5-6 hours on a 3-pin plug, and 4-5 hours on a direct charger.
• You can re-charge the battery via the engine on motorways, but that does drag the MPG down to the mid 20's so it has an impact.
• You get two charging cables, one a 3-pin, and one a Type-2.
• The engine is a 1.4 litre turbo petrol, which I thought may be an issue, but it's the same BHP as the diesel and pulls pretty well. In fact, I've even towed a caravan with it, with no issues.
• The car is nice and smooth to drive, with a nice auto. Even on petrol it is not obtrusive.
• The car defaults to starting in electric and then moves to hybrid when the battery gets low.
• The transformation between electric and petrol is handled by the car and is pretty much seamless.
• On long journeys I tend to put it into hybrid mode so that it runs on a combination of petrol and electric. That's when you tend to see VERY good MPG.
• If running only on petrol with the batteries flat, I can get circa 40mpg around town and 50+mpg on the motorway, so still a pretty good economy.
• The petrol tank is also slightly smaller (60 litres).

Have I seen any major differences compared to running on a diesel? Mainly the fact that I do keep it charged, something I never had to worry about with a diesel. Fuel is cheaper, so there is a saving there.

They're what I can think of off the top of my head.

It’s really strange that in a car the size of a superb they only went with the 1.5engine. I’m guessing this was for even lower tax as most seem 1.6 (xc40 & pug 508) through to 2L in the 330e

 

[srixon 1]

Yes this was my thinking until i got a quote for two weeks hire for a full size car (not in the 6 weeks hollidays) £2500. plus a week over the new year £1500.

£4k for two trips! No thanks.

Wow. A bit steep for just two weeks.

 

[Oddsocks]

We currently have 2 petrol cars, and they're going to need replacing at some point. I reckon what makes sense is to get a small EV runaround for local journeys, plus a PHEV to use in pure electric mode locally but enables us to do long trips without any range/recharge anxiety.

Good to hear that Robster gets decent mpg when running on petrol. Right now the Octavia PHEV looks like our best option.

The thing that concerns me is what is going to happen to battery tech in the near to medium future. Does buying a EV soon mean we miss out on much better tech that comes out later?
Will improved battery tech find its way into PHEVs? How much longer will the car manufacturers keep an interest in PHEVs?

I think battery tech will be a couple consistent development as will inverters, in car recharge systems so it’s impossible to say when is best as technically the technology we are buying now will be old tech anyway.

The 330e is a great example. The older one delivered 20-25 in battery where as the newer 2000 model will do 30-35. These stats are based on moderate sensible driving I’d Warner months during daylight hours etc. I believe the recharge rates under breaking are big factors in hybrids.

If you plan to buy outright now is not the time as the cars are in huge fleet demand with a global shortage so prices a high, if leasing then it would be 3/4 years in which case tech would improve.

I see the big improvement being battery weight, this will make lighter more efficient vehicles or ones which way the same but offer a longer range as you could effectively carry more storage

 

[Robster59]

It’s really strange that in a car the size of a Superb they only went with the 1.5engine. I’m guessing this was for even lower tax as most seem 1.6 (xc40 & pug 508) through to 2L in the 330e

It may depend on how people drive the car as well. The Superb is not a car that most people drive at pace, and the Škoda is not as heavy as you think, it's certainly not as heavy as the BMW for example. The BMW is sold as a sporty car, the Škoda is not. I have to admit that when I first saw it as having a 1.4 litre petrol engine, I was a little concerned, but in real life it hasn't caused me any issues. If I want to go fast, or screech away from the traffic lights, it might be another issue. But it will cruise all day at 70mph in a very unfussed manner, and, for me, the practicalities of the Škoda over, e.g. the BMW, especially in the larger boot, outweighed the BMW badge. The tax was also higher on the BMW, but in fairness, not by much.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

As @Lord Tyrion has said, I have the Skoda Superb iV hybrid. It's a company car. My previous one was the Skoda Superb 2.0 diesel, so I have been able to make a comparison between the two. The difference in company tax was so substantial, it was a no-brainer to make the move.
I'll try to itemise a few.

• The addition of batteries compromises the boot space. Thankfully, in the Superb it already has a big boot, but it is shallower in the hybrid as the batteries are under the boot. However, there is nowhere to put a spare wheel as all the underfloor space is taken.
• Although they say up to 35 miles from a full charge, I've never seen more than 30 showing on the dashboard.
• Charging time is pretty long as it will only take a max 3.6Kw, whatever the charger it connects to. This equates to 5-6 hours on a 3-pin plug, and 4-5 hours on a direct charger.
• You can re-charge the battery via the engine on motorways, but that does drag the MPG down to the mid 20's so it has an impact.
• You get two charging cables, one a 3-pin, and one a Type-2.
• The engine is a 1.4 litre turbo petrol, which I thought may be an issue, but it's the same BHP as the diesel and pulls pretty well. In fact, I've even towed a caravan with it, with no issues.
• The car is nice and smooth to drive, with a nice auto. Even on petrol it is not obtrusive.
• The car defaults to starting in electric and then moves to hybrid when the battery gets low.
• The transformation between electric and petrol is handled by the car and is pretty much seamless.
• On long journeys I tend to put it into hybrid mode so that it runs on a combination of petrol and electric. That's when you tend to see VERY good MPG.
• If running only on petrol with the batteries flat, I can get circa 40mpg around town and 50+mpg on the motorway, so still a pretty good economy.
• The petrol tank is also slightly smaller (60 litres).

Have I seen any major differences compared to running on a diesel? Mainly the fact that I do keep it charged, something I never had to worry about with a diesel. Fuel is cheaper, so there is a saving there.

They're what I can think of off the top of my head.

Excellent consumer advice, thank you

 

[Oddsocks]

And boy was it sporty, wet and in full sport mode I can recall a very close call with only 564 miles on the clock. Instant electric power at a wet junction was bloody scary!