Planning - Permitted Develpment

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Thinking of extending our kitchen with a single storey extension out the back of our semi, and looking at the criteria for permitted development. Our thinking meets the criteria given on the UK Planning Portal bar one about which we are uncertain.

Being a semi we cannot extend beyond the rear wall of the original house by more than 3m. But what defines the ‘original house’. As an older (1918) property there was a single storey lean-to washhouse and coal shed as part of the rear of the house. We knocked it down some 20yrs ago replacing it with a conservatory.

My uncertainty is whether or not the wash house lean-to comprised part of the original house in the context of permitted development ...on the original deeds for the property the footprint of our house includes the lean-to - it is not identified separately.

This matters simply as we’d wish to extend about 4m from the rear of original house if that does not include the lean-to - but only about 1.5m from the rear of the original house if the lean-to is included.

 

[GB72]

Thinking of extending our kitchen with a single storey extension out the back of our semi, and looking at the criteria for permitted development. Our thinking meets the criteria given on the UK Planning Portal bar one about which we are uncertain.

Being a semi we cannot extend beyond the rear wall of the original house by more than 3m. But what defines the ‘original house’. As an older (1918) property there was a single storey lean-to washhouse and coal shed as part of the rear of the house. We knocked it down some 20yrs ago replacing it with a conservatory.

My uncertainty is whether or not the wash house lean-to comprised part of the original house in the context of permitted development ...on the original deeds for the property the footprint of our house includes the lean-to - it is not identified separately.

This matters simply as we’d wish to extend about 4m from the rear of original house if that does not include the lean-to - but only about 1.5m from the rear of the original house if the lean-to is included.

Simple answer is, do not look for loopholes to reach the answer you want, call the council, arrange to discuss your plans and get it is writing if they will class it as permitted development then there is no dispute going forward.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Simple answer is, do not look for loopholes to reach the answer you want, call the council, arrange to discuss your plans and get it is writing if they will class it as permitted development then there is no dispute going forward.

This.

Do it properly. For what it costs, get planning permission. Then there is no doubt.

I've seen plenty of people tie themselves in knots looking for loopholes to avoid planning. And a few being served notice to demolish extensions and garden offices. Not a place you want to go if you value a good nights sleep.

 

[GB72]

This.

Do it properly. For what it costs, get planning permission. Then there is no doubt.

I've seen plenty of people tie themselves in knots looking for loopholes to avoid planning. And a few being served notice to demolish extensions and garden offices. Not a place you want to go if you value a good nights sleep.

It comes to bite you in the backside as well if you ever sell the property. You are asked for planning permission for the extension, you say it is permitted development and give your reason, the solicitor wants some evidence that this is the case (after all, it is the opinion of the council that is wanted not yours) and you cannot produce it and so end up getting the council out to inspect anyway.

 

[sunshine]

Last time I checked, permitted development stretched to 6m, providing your neighbours did not object (you need to inform them but don't need permission). Most of the houses on my mum's street of 1930's semis have extended 4-6m.

 

[SatchFan]

Almost mirroring the OP - we got planning permission 20 years ago to erect a large conservatory for our semi-detached house. We had a tatty lean-to which had been added after the original house. The measurements did not include the lean-to and we actually came out with a 4 metre conservatory. We are now just about to have the conservatory demolished and replaced by an extension of the same dimensions. Again, we applied for planning permission just in case and it came back as Prior Approval Not needed, so we are covered. Annoying as it is it's a small price to pay against the cost of the extension. Have to say our council was very helpful this time around when we contacted them for advice.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This.

Do it properly. For what it costs, get planning permission. Then there is no doubt.

I've seen plenty of people tie themselves in knots looking for loopholes to avoid planning. And a few being served notice to demolish extensions and garden offices. Not a place you want to go if you value a good nights sleep.

Honestly not looking for loopholes - just checking against permitted development criteria that could mean not having to go through planning - after is is that not what permitted development is all about...?

The question is simply: is the connected lean-to part of the original house - as it is shown to be on the original deeds. I’ll be going for planning permission for a separate side-extension we will do at the same time and would rather not have two planning applications running at the same time - but just looking for clarification if anyone can provide it.

My council planning website says they are not able to give such advice on individual proposals - maybe they require something more substantial in respect of what we are proposing before they can do that. But I’ll give them a ring and see what I can get.

 

[GB72]

Honestly not looking for loopholes - just checking against permitted development criteria that could mean not having to go through planning - after is is that not what permitted development is all about...?

The question is simply: is the connected lean-to part of the original house - as it is shown to be on the original deeds. I’ll be going for planning permission for a separate side-extension we will do at the same time and would rather not have two planning applications running at the same time - but just looking for clarification if anyone can provide it.

My council planning website says they are not able to give such advice on individual proposals - maybe they require something more substantial in respect of what we are proposing before they can do that. But I’ll give them a ring and see what I can get.

Thing is, any response will be an opinion and the only way to be protected going forward is to get something in writing from the council even if it is just a letter from the planning officer supporting your point of view.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Honestly not looking for loopholes - just checking against permitted development criteria that could mean not having to go through planning - after is is that not what permitted development is all about...?

The question is simply: is the connected lean-to part of the original house - as it is shown to be on the original deeds. I’ll be going for planning permission for a separate side-extension we will do at the same time and would rather not have two planning applications running at the same time - but just looking for clarification if anyone can provide it.

My council planning website says they are not able to give such advice on individual proposals - maybe they require something more substantial in respect of what we are proposing before they can do that. But I’ll give them a ring and see what I can get.

I wasn't for one minute suggesting you were looking for loopholes. But a surprising number of people do to save a few hundred £ when spending tens of thousands.

Permitted development was indeed intended for situations like yours. But as you're discovering, its not always straightforward.

Planning isn't my area of expertise. So as you are doing getting information from your local council is the right way forward. Even then you may get different options depending on who you speak to. Which is why I would go the full planning route to be on the safe side.

Building regs is where a lot of people fall down trying to bodge or cut corners.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Honestly not looking for loopholes - just checking against permitted development criteria that could mean not having to go through planning - after is is that not what permitted development is all about...?

The question is simply: is the connected lean-to part of the original house - as it is shown to be on the original deeds. I’ll be going for planning permission for a separate side-extension we will do at the same time and would rather not have two planning applications running at the same time - but just looking for clarification if anyone can provide it.

My council planning website says they are not able to give such advice on individual proposals - maybe they require something more substantial in respect of what we are proposing before they can do that. But I’ll give them a ring and see what I can get.

When I had some work done (second conservatory and a front porch) how the house was before my proposed buildings happened was taken as the "original house" reference point.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When I had some work done (second conservatory and a front porch) how the house was before my proposed buildings happened was taken as the "original house" reference point.

indeed. My question was simply whether the footprint of the original house as shown on the location plan of the deeds is what I base my thinking on, as that footprint includes (and does not differentiate) the original connected washhouse. I will do a check with the council but was wondering as it does impact what we can do - though not too significantly.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

indeed. My question was simply whether the footprint of the original house as shown on the location plan of the deeds is what I base my thinking on, as that footprint includes (and does not differentiate) the original connected washhouse. I will do a check with the council but was wondering as it does impact what we can do - though not too significantly.

How the deeds show the house/footprint isn’t how it is now, therefore you have to provide new plans of how it is now on the plot and how your proposed plans will make it look.
Thats what I had to do anyway.

 

[backwoodsman]

Like others have said, you need proper advice, but my reading of it is that where the lean-to was, you could go 3m behind that bit, but, where there was no lean-to, you could only go 3m behind the current "house wall" - ie the extension would be stepped. See image.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Like others have said, you need proper advice, but my reading of it is that where the lean-to was, you could go 3m behind that bit, but, where there was no lean-to, you could only go 3m behind the current "house wall" - ie the extension would be stepped. See image.

View attachment 36551

Excellent - that explains things. As it happens our thinking on the extension is that it would be the same width and basic location across the back as the original lean-to. The original lean-to did not extend fully across the back of our house and stopped just over a metre from the shared boundary between ourselves and next door, and we would leave the same gap as originally was. However it did not extend fully across to the non-shared side...and so we would be limited to 3m from there and we want to extend maybe 4m that side - so planning permission would need to be sought.

 

[backwoodsman]

Excellent - that explains things. As it happens our thinking on the extension is that it would be the same width and basic location across the back as the original lean-to. The original lean-to did not extend fully across the back of our house and stopped just over a metre from the boundary between ourselves and next door, and we would leave the same gap as originally was.

If you haven't already done so, it's worth having a look at the full document.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...nt-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you haven't already done so, it's worth having a look at the full document.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...nt-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance

That’s really useful thank you. I have been on the Planning Portal that my council‘s planning website has a link to but didn’t spot a further link pointing to this document...?

 

[backwoodsman]

That’s really useful thank you. I have been on the Planning Portal that my council‘s planning website has a link to but didn’t spot a further link pointing to this document...?

I generally don't go via the Portal. I usually Google a topic then browse through the results, looking to see if there's anything listed under the .gov.uk site

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Rather than start a new thread…we decided to go ahead with our extension and are on the way with getting designs finalised and into planning.

Question on the conservatory we are removing.

It’s 20yrs old but still in reasonable condition with blinds all round and on roof. Rather than just have it ripped down and skipped…is there any market out there for it? I’m only now thinking this given the rocketing cost of materials will have no doubt have sig increased the cost of even such as conservatories, and possibly also introduced delays in delivery and build.

A quick look online suggests that historically it was rare to get any interest and much if anything at all for one…but maybe that has changed this last year or so.

 

[road2ruin]

Rather than start a new thread…we decided to go ahead with our extension and are on the way with getting designs finalised and into planning.

Question on the conservatory we are removing.

It’s 20yrs old but still in reasonable condition with blinds all round and on roof. Rather than just have it ripped down and skipped…is there any market out there for it? I’m only now thinking this given the rocketing cost of materials will have no doubt have sig increased the cost of even such as conservatories, and possibly also introduced delays in delivery and build.

A quick look online suggests that historically it was rare to get any interest and much if anything at all for one…but maybe that has changed this last year or so.

I'd say yes there is a market, my folks pulled something similar down and decided to try and make some money. I was sceptical as it was pretty old and looked destined for landfill. They had someone round within a few days who dismantled and took away so I was proved wrong.

Can't hurt to offer it up and see what happens.

 

[IanM]

Facebook marketplace is the place for this sort of thing. Especially if priced properly.