Replacing a Boundary Wall

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We live in a semi. Running down the boundary between us and our neighbours from the rear of the building is a 6ft high single brick wall. It runs for about 15ft from the rear wall. This has become unstable. Our neighbours have a little old timber framed lean-to built on top of the wall. That lean-to rotten and also at risk of falling down and is dangerous condition. Few questions for those who might know. The wall is on our RHS as we face the rear of the house.

1) if we are to have the wall replaced with double brick wall that could be built upon in the future does that wall have to straddle the boundary line equally?

2) Do we have to have neighbours permission to replace the wall - even if the answer to 1) is No and we build the new wall mostly on our side?

3) Can we require our neighbours to make their existing structure safe?

4) If our neighbours agree to replacing their structure do they have to have our ok if they build a replacement on a wall that we have paid for and if they build on the wall on their side of boundary?

 

[BubbaP]

Did you ever establish the ownership/responsibility of the wall?
Did you have the wall formally assessed?
https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/t...erous-exterior-garden-party-wall.99611/page-3

 

[User62651]

First off - speak to neighbours directly about concerns.
If they are willing to share work and agree what's to be done do that.
If they are sniffy or disinterested then if you haven't got one I think a plan from the Land Registry is the first step, find out who owns the wall - one of or both parties.
They may have a legal duty of care if they own or part own a dilapidated structure.

If you get that info then you can move on to the other Qs answers.

 

[CountLippe]

We live in a semi. Running down the boundary between us and our neighbours from the rear of the building is a 6ft high single brick wall. It runs for about 15ft from the rear wall. This has become unstable. Our neighbours have a little old timber framed lean-to built on top of the wall. That lean-to rotten and also at risk of falling down and is dangerous condition. Few questions for those who might know. The wall is on our RHS as we face the rear of the house.

1) if we are to have the wall replaced with double brick wall that could be built upon in the future does that wall have to straddle the boundary line equally?

2) Do we have to have neighbours permission to replace the wall - even if the answer to 1) is No and we build the new wall mostly on our side?

3) Can we require our neighbours to make their existing structure safe?

4) If our neighbours agree to replacing their structure do they have to have our ok if they build a replacement on a wall that we have paid for and if they build on the wall on their side of boundary?

In England and Wales this work falls under the Party Wall Act. You need to serve a party wall notice. This gives you a right to rebuild a party wall. You are also entitled to a contribution towards the cost of repairs, the ratio dependent on how equally you use the wall. You would normally appoint party wall surveyors to make an award which would set out the timing and manner of rebuilding the wall and what contributions the neighbour will make.

The act does not apply in scotland which makes it more tricky, as it needs to be dealt with by common law, but there is an duty of care on both neighbours to maintain a boundary wall.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Did you ever establish the ownership/responsibility of the wall?
Did you have the wall formally assessed?
https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/t...erous-exterior-garden-party-wall.99611/page-3

Our deeds don't indicate anything on the boundary. I've got a builder in this week and going to ask him to look at it.

I've spoken with the owner's son abut it - and with the (elderly) owner - about them coming round our side to have a look. But they haven't been round. Once our builder has had a look and told us what he'd recommend the replacement being I'll try again.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

First off - speak to neighbours directly about concerns.
If they are willing to share work and agree what's to be done do that.
If they are sniffy or disinterested then if you haven't got one I think a plan from the Land Registry is the first step, find out who owns the wall - one of or both parties.
They may have a legal duty of care if they own or part own a dilapidated structure.

If you get that info then you can move on to the other Qs answers.

BTW - the dilapidated structure that is built onto the shared wall is theirs. We took our equivalent down 20yrs ago.

 

[rulefan]

See post #4

https://www.wlbuildingsurveyors.co.uk/2018/09/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-a-beginners-guide/

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

See post #4

https://www.wlbuildingsurveyors.co.uk/2018/09/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-a-beginners-guide/

Cheers...

 

[backwoodsman]

The difficulty lies in knowing whether the wall is indeed a party wall - as a party wall is the responsibility of both property owners. (A property wall is one that actually straddles the boundary). A wall that just butts up to the boundary, is the sole responsibility of the owner of the land on which it stands. In the case of garden walls, it is very difficult to tell, just by looking, if a wall actually straddles the boundary.

The Party Wall Act is not a lot of help in that it doesnt help identify if a particular wall is a party wall - it merely sets out the criteria of what you must do if you want to work on or near a party wall - and indeed if you want to work near a boundary wall. But it's of no practical use in actually identifying if the wall is in fact shared, or if it is the responsibility of one side or the other. If the property deeds aren't clear, then you have a problem in knowing whether its actually your problem to sort out.

 

[CountLippe]

In >99% of cases, if the centre of boundary wall separating a pair of semi detached houses is also the centre of the two houses it is a party wall / party fence wall. If your neighbour disputes this and the deeds are silent then you would need to get specialist advice from a boundary expert.

 

[backwoodsman]

In >99% of cases, if the centre of boundary wall separating a pair of semi detached houses is also the centre of the two houses it is a party wall / party fence wall. If your neighbour disputes this and the deeds are silent then you would need to get specialist advice from a boundary expert.

This is true enough when considering the actual house wall - ie the wall which separates your lounge from their lounge or whatever. It would be highly unusual for it not to be a party wall. But garden walls are a different kettle of fish. They are often not contemporary with the house and as often as not, if they are single brick width, (as SILH say "his" is) they have been constructed one side or the other. And often, folk build things abutting them, or even on, them regardless of whether they have a right to - which complicates the issue, or at least clouds it, years down the line when folk have forgotten (or dont even know) who did what.. In short, garden walls are a pain.

 

[williamalex1]

Wait till they are out and give it a good old shake Then tell them their wall fell down all by itself

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Wait till they are out and give it a good old shake Then tell them their wall fell down all by itself

Actually - our builder thought that it was stable enough - not an issue. Replacing it not worth the money and it would be costly if we were to replace if with something more substantive that could form the basis of further building work.

Anyway...I found a deed with a plan that shows a T on our side of the boundary - no mention of the T in the wording in the deeds. And on the Land Registry website I find the following statement...

‘T’ marks on deed plans which are not referred to in the text of a deed have no special force or meaning in law and unless an applicant specifically requests that the ‘T’ marks be shown on the title plan, we will normally ignore them

So I guess that means we might be responsible for maintaining the boundary - but might not.

 

[CountLippe]

This is true enough when considering the actual house wall - ie the wall which separates your lounge from their lounge or whatever. It would be highly unusual for it not to be a party wall. But garden walls are a different kettle of fish. They are often not contemporary with the house and as often as not, if they are single brick width, (as SILH say "his" is) they have been constructed one side or the other. And often, folk build things abutting them, or even on, them regardless of whether they have a right to - which complicates the issue, or at least clouds it, years down the line when folk have forgotten (or dont even know) who did what.. In short, garden walls are a pain.

If the wall is astride the boundary it is a party wall regardless of who built it or how wide it is. If the wall is upto but not astride the boundary it is not. A couple of measurements will determine this.

 

[Grant85]

We live in a semi. Running down the boundary between us and our neighbours from the rear of the building is a 6ft high single brick wall. It runs for about 15ft from the rear wall. This has become unstable. Our neighbours have a little old timber framed lean-to built on top of the wall. That lean-to rotten and also at risk of falling down and is dangerous condition. Few questions for those who might know. The wall is on our RHS as we face the rear of the house.

1) if we are to have the wall replaced with double brick wall that could be built upon in the future does that wall have to straddle the boundary line equally?

2) Do we have to have neighbours permission to replace the wall - even if the answer to 1) is No and we build the new wall mostly on our side?

3) Can we require our neighbours to make their existing structure safe?

4) If our neighbours agree to replacing their structure do they have to have our ok if they build a replacement on a wall that we have paid for and if they build on the wall on their side of boundary?

1) I would suggest you would put the wall on one side of boundary and not straddling it. This would be the most simple legal solution and ensure no dispute with current or future owners. In all the properties I've owned, all walls / fences have been clearly inside one boundary.

2) No. You are entitled to a boundary up to 2m around your property.

3) I'd guess not without legal action and I'd imagine the bar for making something safe on private property is going to be completely different to something with public access. i.e. is this a danger to you? More so than a tree or a fence that might have potential to fall onto your property?

4) I'd suggest that they shouldn't build a structure that is leaning on your wall and it should be free standing based on what is on their property.

Would a solution be to remove the wall and put a fence on your side of the boundary? Much cheaper and not going to be used as supporting a lean to?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

1) I would suggest you would put the wall on one side of boundary and not straddling it. This would be the most simple legal solution and ensure no dispute with current or future owners. In all the properties I've owned, all walls / fences have been clearly inside one boundary.

2) No. You are entitled to a boundary up to 2m around your property.

3) I'd guess not without legal action and I'd imagine the bar for making something safe on private property is going to be completely different to something with public access. i.e. is this a danger to you? More so than a tree or a fence that might have potential to fall onto your property?

4) I'd suggest that they shouldn't build a structure that is leaning on your wall and it should be free standing based on what is on their property.

Would a solution be to remove the wall and put a fence on your side of the boundary? Much cheaper and not going to be used as supporting a lean to?

We'll probably not do anything with the existing wall given our builder advice is that wall is stable enough.

Risk from the neighbours is that the framing of a couple of the glazed side panels of the gable sitting on the boundary wall is very rotten - I could probably poke my finger through one bit if I was so inclined. Risk is frame failing and glass falling out on our side.

If they want to replace it then they can do so. In fact we'd want them to replace it as what is there is very unsightly. I assume that - even though they are replacing an existing structure - they would still have to have our permission to rebuild as they are building on a party boundary wall.