woofers
Medal Winner
Everyone can have line of sight if it’s set out as a local rule. See model local rule F23 under Committee Procedures, Abnormal Course Conditions and Integral Objects
Patrick Reed
- Thread starter Parsaregood
- Start date
Jacko_G
Blackballed
So when a tour professional is in the woods claiming they are going to play a 30 yard "fade" round the TV tower that they have no chance of pulling off it's "not really" a fair advantage, rule "bend"???
Jacko_G
Blackballed
How many line of site rules have you ever seen/heard of on your travels and how many TV towers, stands etc are on your course?
woofers
Medal Winner
You’re being silly. The original point was that Pros have rules that don’t apply to amateur golfers, I was merely pointing out that the Rules of Golf accommodate Line of Sight Relief should a Committee feel the need to implement them.
And I did ask about this with a top tournament official at Wentworth who referred me to my rule book.
robinthehood
Hacker
I don't understand your point, something is either on your line or it isn't. The rule itself is just a local rule that can be used at any level. Maybe if in future they televise my monthly medal I'll get to experience it.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
It's a local rule that club golfers will never experience, I suggest that is what the original comment was "aimed" at.
However it's in the interpretation.
robinthehood
Hacker
So they are the same rules then. ?
Jacko_G
Blackballed
You interpret, I interpret. End of.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
No interpretation.
As someone's post it's either line of sight or it isn't in the case of a TIO - no relief for something that might be in the way of the shot the player claims, or chooses, to play that doesn't meet the line of sight requirements.
'Club golfers' rarely experience this because any obstructions that meet the TIO definitions are usually moveable. The relief situation is slightly complicated so most club committees avoid their implementation.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
One day this will get quoted correctly ?
Woods took relief under one rule and played out the hole.
The committee considered his action and ruled that where he had dropped was within an acceptable tolerance (close enough) for a different rule....
When Woods stated the rule he had proceeded under at the post round press conference the committee had a huge problem - so they contacted the R&A for a ruling (effectively overnight) who ruled that the committee were in error for ruling on an assumption without having discussed the situation with the player before he returned his card. Because they had ruled that he hadn't gained an advantage they couldn't change that even when the player stated that he had dropped there to gain an advantage (in his eyes within the rule he though he was proceeding under - back on line, when he was actually proceeding under playing from the previous stroke position, then went further...).
So he was penalised 2 strokes for the technical side of his breach, and the world's conspiracy theorists had a field day (appreciate you aren't one).
Norrin Radd
Tour Winner
As to the pros playing to different rules ,what about pick and place ,the pros get a club length ,we get about six inches .I have never been allowed a club length when it's been pick and place unlike the pros in tournaments I've seen on TV
woofers
Medal Winner
Again nothing special for the Pro’s, have a look at model local rule E3 in the rule book. It can be a scorecard, 6 inches, a club length.....it will be down to your Committee to determine.
Grant85
Head Pro
Personally think Reed got off lightly.
Rules have been softened in recent years, stemming from Tiger not getting DQd at the Masters for taking a dodgy drop.
In years passed I reckon they would have let Reed finish his round, sign his card. Then he'd have been DQd for signing for a wrong score.
Obviously with TV coverage being so prevalent, they have amended things slightly and they now advise the player on course, or prior to signing his card.
Perhaps there will be a tournament rule or some kind of committee discretion whereby they could have DQd him. But I think, again stemming from Tiger at the Masters, they always want to be on the side of letting people stay in the event as it might be Reed this week, but next week it could be Tiger or Rory etc.
I'm sure they are pretty glad he didn't win, but did get a few ranking points, not to mention the cash.
Rules have been softened in recent years, stemming from Tiger not getting DQd at the Masters for taking a dodgy drop.
In years passed I reckon they would have let Reed finish his round, sign his card. Then he'd have been DQd for signing for a wrong score.
Obviously with TV coverage being so prevalent, they have amended things slightly and they now advise the player on course, or prior to signing his card.
Perhaps there will be a tournament rule or some kind of committee discretion whereby they could have DQd him. But I think, again stemming from Tiger at the Masters, they always want to be on the side of letting people stay in the event as it might be Reed this week, but next week it could be Tiger or Rory etc.
I'm sure they are pretty glad he didn't win, but did get a few ranking points, not to mention the cash.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
Swango1980
Well-known member
As woofers pointed out, this is not a special rule for the pros, your Club Committee can also permit a preferred lie within a club length (our club used to).
However, the main reason why this is not allowed, is the condition set within CONGU that, if you are to play a qualifier then preferred lies must be taken within 6 inches, not a club length. So, it is not a Rules of Golf issue, but a handicapping issue. Obviously the professionals are not exactly bothered about playing for their handicap.
Foxholer
Blackballed
The few (3) times I've seen Preferred Lies at Pro tournaments, it's always been applied as 'within scorecard'.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
I think you need to appreciate 3.3.b (3) a little more.
It applies to the club golfer as much as the professional tournaments and is a very common sense rule.
In simple terms if you know, or could have known, that you returned an incorrect score on a hole you get DQ - if you don't/can't the score gets corrected. Most consider this sensible.
Tiger's situation is explained fully on an earlier post in this thread. Not relevant here.
The crux of this particular incident is whether PR sort to gain an advantage knowing he was breaching a rule (and subsequently neither raising uncertainty with the committee nor including a penalty that followed from his known actions) or that he honestly believed that his known (seemingly accepted) actions were not a breach of the rules (because the action was away from his line of play).
The committee seem to have ruled that it wasn't far enough away (so he gets a penalty) but that this was an error of judgement (and that he could have reasonably believed that he hadn't breach the rules and incurred a penalty through his actions). That is their decision to make - however surprisingly the outcome.
I do agree with the perspective that the incident doesn't seem to reflect well on either player or committee.
rulefan
Tour Winner
I have played Hoylake and Birkdale just after Opens have finished. The stands and some TV towers were still in place.
Further, I used the LR (after advice from the R&A) whilst some construction work was being done at my course. I have also seen similar situations at courses where I have been officiating.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Because the Committee had originally given him a wrong ruling.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Loving the Trump-excuse being used by some. If you do something illegal, blatantly and completely in public view (sometimes more than once) then - so the Trump-excuse goes - you can't possibly know that what you are doing is illegal 
