Nobody knows the rules!

[ManinBlack]

Do you have a response yet? Be good to know the related rule and decision

Not yet.

 

[FairwayDodger]

This is odd because everytime I play in a comp someone always asks me what club I am going with and the likes of and no one is ever penalised for this ruling. Would be shocked if someone called anyone up for any of the issues you raise at my club to be honest.

It rarely happens with lower handicap players, who tend to know the rules better, but in club comps I'm regularly asked what club I hit by FCs. It's usually someone holding a 3 wood or driver even though I've just hit a seven iron and they're never going to base their selection on mine; it's pure interest rather than seeking any information to help them.

I always tell them that they're not allowed to ask and I'm not allowed to tell them..... but, rightly or wrongly, I'm never going to apply a penalty to their score for an innocent, harmless mistake like that. My hope is that eventually everyone will learn not to ask!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It rarely happens with lower handicap players, who tend to know the rules better, but in club comps I'm regularly asked what club I hit by FCs. It's usually someone holding a 3 wood or driver even though I've just hit a seven iron and they're never going to base their selection on mine; it's pure interest rather than seeking any information to help them.

I always tell them that they're not allowed to ask and I'm not allowed to tell them..... but, rightly or wrongly, I'm never going to apply a penalty to their score for an innocent, harmless mistake like that. My hope is that eventually everyone will learn not to ask!

Aside from the fact it's against the rules, I really don't see the obsession with knowing what club people hit. It's not like the lofts are the same or they know how well or hard you hit it. In fact, most of the time it has no relevance to their shot whatsoever.

 

[Foxholer]

It rarely happens with lower handicap players, who tend to know the rules better, but in club comps I'm regularly asked what club I hit by FCs. It's usually someone holding a 3 wood or driver even though I've just hit a seven iron and they're never going to base their selection on mine; it's pure interest rather than seeking any information to help them.

There's an argument for interpreting that (your) incident as not 'asking for advice'! Which is obviously the way you have - otherwise you would, in fairness to the rest of the field, be obliged to apply the Penalty in the same way as recognising they have 15 Clubs in their bag! If you didn't you'd be guilty of agreeing to waive a Rule, the penalty for which is DQ! See the dilemna the question raises?

I got round it, the only time I've been asked in a Comp situation, a slightly different way, but still a bit 'dodgy'.

 

[FairwayDodger]

There's an argument for interpreting that (your) incident as not 'asking for advice'! Which is obviously the way you have - otherwise you would, in fairness to the rest of the field, be obliged to apply the Penalty in the same way as recognising they have 15 Clubs in their bag! If you didn't you'd be guilty of agreeing to waive a Rule, the penalty for which is DQ! See the dilemna the question raises?

I got round it, the only time I've been asked in a Comp situation, a slightly different way, but still a bit 'dodgy'.

In those terms, you're right, it's really not "asking for advice" and I don't think that's what they're doing but it's a subtle distinction! I've tried to think of a better way to express this, and failed so please forgive the ridiculousness of what I'm about to write..... It's generally asked by short-hitting high handicap ladies in an "awestruck" sort of way....

Go on then.... how did you get round it?

 

[Foxholer]

In those terms, you're right, it's really not "asking for advice" and I don't think that's what they're doing but it's a subtle distinction! I've tried to think of a better way to express this, and failed so please forgive the ridiculousness of what I'm about to write..... It's generally asked by short-hitting high handicap ladies in an "awestruck" sort of way....

Go on then.... how did you get round it?

Well, I could never be accused of being 'too big a hitter'! But it did seem to be puzzlement rather than looking for advice. I was 'nurse-maiding' him in his first Comp and simply hushed him and pointed him to the Tee, as it was his turn to play, then explained it after he had hit. For subsequent nurse-maiding - I did quite a bit, as I ran most of the comps so went out in last group - it was something I stressed (to not do) before the round. As I posted, a bit dodgy, but as there was never any adice given and he went straight to the Tee.....

 

[cookelad]

In those terms, you're right, it's really not "asking for advice" and I don't think that's what they're doing but it's a subtle distinction! I've tried to think of a better way to express this, and failed so please forgive the ridiculousness of what I'm about to write..... It's generally asked by short-hitting high handicap ladies in an "awestruck" sort of way....

Go on then.... how did you get round it?

Not ridiculous at all, I've spent most of my golfing life being the youngest in the group, sometimes in excess of 50 years difference, and as you say they're not soliciting advice they're looking to be "impressed" (I know I have to open both doors to get my ego through) I normally tell them after they've hit theirs and we're walking towards the green just to avoid anybody feeling the need to give out penalties. Even though, as you say, them knowing I've just hit a wedge while they've got a 3 wood out is hardly going to be of any use to them!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Not ridiculous at all, I've spent most of my golfing life being the youngest in the group, sometimes in excess of 50 years difference, and as you say they're not soliciting advice they're looking to be "impressed" (I know I have to open both doors to get my ego through) I normally tell them after they've hit theirs and we're walking towards the green just to avoid anybody feeling the need to give out penalties. Even though, as you say, them knowing I've just hit a wedge while they've got a 3 wood out is hardly going to be of any use to them!

Yeah agreed, I always tell them but only after they've played.

 

[rosecott]

This is odd because everytime I play in a comp someone always asks me what club I am going with and the likes of and no one is ever penalised for this ruling. Would be shocked if someone called anyone up for any of the issues you raise at my club to be honest.

Shocked at having to play to the rules?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Shocked at having to play to the rules?

Would appear so.

 

[palindromicbob]

If you want to avoid anyone asking and aren't bothered about them knowing just get into the habit of keeping the sole of your club on show.

 

[Colin L]

Phew! Just come across this thread and skimmed through it for the first time. Apologies if I've overlooked them, but I don't see conclusions to these issues that cropped up :

If two players say what clubs they have just used at a Par 3 , would it be advice if a) there were another hole of the same length still to be played or b) were it the first time of playing that hole on an 18-hole round on a 9 hole course? In neither case would it be advice. See Decision 8-1/6.

If you suggest another player should play a provisional ball, is that advice? No

 

[Colin L]

Drat! Just spent so long writing an edit to the above post that I got timed out and lost all the text.

I suggest taking care with the idea in some posts that something said is not advice if it is a statement of fact. Answering the question "What club did you take" with "A 6 iron" is a question and answer about fact. What matters is whether it could influence your play. Said before the event, it's advice; after you've both played, it's not. But it's a statement of fact whatever.

I'm inclined to see the remark about hitting the ball where you were aiming as advice as it could influence your later play. If that were said to you after an offline drive, what could be going through your mind on the next tee. I'm sure I'd be thinking, "I must take more care with my alignment and not do what i did last time" as a consequence of what I'd been told.

 

[ManinBlack]

That's my view but I'm still waiting for my answer from the R & A

 

[ManinBlack]

Amazing how many people, me included, don't know all the rules.

Here are two common breaches I've witnessed recently. One competitor (4 handicap team player) on par 3 tee "I've got a 5 iron, what do you think?" Other competitor (single figures) "I'm taking a 6". Two stroke penalty to each.

Player hit his tee shot miles right. Two fellow competitors immediately shout "That's exactly where you were aiming!" Whoops, 2 stroke pen.
And how many people time the search for a lost ball properly? Not many.

I queried this with the R & A ages ago then sent them a reminder. They said they are "dealing with it" I don't think they know the answer!

 

[Foxholer]

Drat! Just spent so long writing an edit to the above post that I got timed out and lost all the text.

I suggest taking care with the idea in some posts that something said is not advice if it is a statement of fact. Answering the question "What club did you take" with "A 6 iron" is a question and answer about fact. What matters is whether it could influence your play. Said before the event, it's advice; after you've both played, it's not. But it's a statement of fact whatever.

I'm inclined to see the remark about hitting the ball where you were aiming as advice as it could influence your later play. If that were said to you after an offline drive, what could be going through your mind on the next tee. I'm sure I'd be thinking, "I must take more care with my alignment and not do what i did last time" as a consequence of what I'd been told.

This approach is somewhat inconsistent with Decision 8-1/6 - asking what club used at a previous hole (not a breach). And, indeed, asking what club a person used after you've both played, could also influence your later play!

 

[MashieNiblick]

I'm inclined to see the remark about hitting the ball where you were aiming as advice as it could influence your later play. If that were said to you after an offline drive, what could be going through your mind on the next tee. I'm sure I'd be thinking, "I must take more care with my alignment and not do what i did last time" as a consequence of what I'd been told.

This approach is somewhat inconsistent with Decision 8-1/6 - asking what club used at a previous hole (not a breach). And, indeed, asking what club a person used after you've both played, could also influence your later play!

Tend to favour Colin's view here. Especially if the first drive went OOB or a provisional was played. Player would have the opportunity to adjust his set up, hence the comment could directly influence his subsequent play.

 

[ManinBlack]

We'll see! I really don't know the answer, but it should be a matter of fact, not opinion.

 

[Foxholer]

Tend to favour Colin's view here. Especially if the first drive went OOB or a provisional was played. Player would have the opportunity to adjust his set up, hence the comment could directly influence his subsequent play.

Indeed, I was humming and haa-ing about how to phrase exactly that situation - and the equivalent from elsewhere on the course. If it was between playing the original and the provisional/S&D one, then Advice. If pointed out 'subsequently' then perhaps not - though I would still actually think it was.

 

[Colin L]

Knowing what club your FC used at a previous hole does not assist later play because you are not going to be playing that shot again. Knowing from your FC that your alignment was faulty could assist every single shot from there on in - apart from your putts.