Nobody knows the rules!

[Baldy Bouncer]

It`s also a lot easier to keep your gob shut and say nowt and thus remove ANY doubt.
"Good shot" works well
Likewise "ooh unlucky"

 

[Foxholer]

Knowing what club your FC used at a previous hole does not assist later play because you are not going to be playing that shot again. Knowing from your FC that your alignment was faulty could assist every single shot from there on in - apart from your putts.

H'mm!

Why ask then?

Btw. I would think that it was the FC that got penalised, if anyone, for to spontaneous 'advice' - even if you had 'questioned' the reason for the result - as in '<expletive>! Why did i hit it there?!'.

 

[ManinBlack]

See title of thread. Looks like I don't know the rules either.

I got a reply from the R & A re my query as to whether a fellow competitor saying "That's exactly where you were aiming!" after an off line shot was advice. The R & A replied "In the same way as a player would not be penalised for casually making a comment regarding the club he had just played (see Decision 8-1/8), a player would not be penalised for making this type of casual comment."

So now we know.

 

[Foxholer]

Thanks for the effort MiB.

(Sort of) pleasing to know that my approach agrees with the ruling, so I don't believe I'll need to change any comments.

Important to note the word 'casual' though. And 8-1/6 (asking about club used on earlier hole) and 8-1/18 (before starting, asking someone who has finished about clubs on various holes) still feel a bit iffy too, but....

 

[CliveW]

I got a reply from the R & A re my query

How do you manage to get a ruling from the R&A? I queeried a decision and it took them over two weeks to reply saying

"Thank you for your e-mail of 25 February in which you raised a query on the Rules of Golf.

I regret to inform you that the Rules of Golf Committee cannot answer queries unless they are rendered in accordance with Rule 34-3 of the Rules of Golf (see below). If your query is re-submitted through an authorised representative of the Committee, or if you would confirm whether you are an authorised member of the Committee, the Rules of Golf Committee will be in a position to reply."

I asked our pro who is a qualified referee with the R&A and the PGA, and he couldn't provide the answer. He then phoned John Parrimore who finally gave the ruling.

 

[Colin L]

See title of thread. Looks like I don't know the rules either.

I got a reply from the R & A re my query as to whether a fellow competitor saying "That's exactly where you were aiming!" after an off line shot was advice. The R & A replied "In the same way as a player would not be penalised for casually making a comment regarding the club he had just played (see Decision 8-1/8), a player would not be penalised for making this type of casual comment."

So now we know.

Thanks for making the effort. It's good to have clarity.

I can imagine circumstances in which the remark would clearly not be casual so it's useful to know the R&A see a difference.

 

[ManinBlack]

How do you manage to get a ruling from the R&A? I queeried a decision and it took them over two weeks to reply saying

"Thank you for your e-mail of 25 February in which you raised a query on the Rules of Golf.

I regret to inform you that the Rules of Golf Committee cannot answer queries unless they are rendered in accordance with Rule 34-3 of the Rules of Golf (see below). If your query is re-submitted through an authorised representative of the Committee, or if you would confirm whether you are an authorised member of the Committee, the Rules of Golf Committee will be in a position to reply."

I asked our pro who is a qualified referee with the R&A and the PGA, and he couldn't provide the answer. He then phoned John Parrimore who finally gave the ruling.

When you raise a query on the website the R & A give you the option of saying whether it was in a competition or just a general query. If you say the latter they will give you an answer. If it was in a competition they will only reply to an authorised representative of the club.

 

[CliveW]

When you raise a query on the website the R & A give you the option of saying whether it was in a competition or just a general query. If you say the latter they will give you an answer. If it was in a competition they will only reply to an authorised representative of the club.

Thanks, I'll give that a try next time.

 

[CMAC]

It's good to know common sense prevails and the R&A agree that stating an opinion that "you were aiming that way" is not advice.

We have all done it without any ulterior motive- I can see both sides but in this case I'm glad normality won.

 

[bobmac]

How do you manage to get a ruling from the R&A? I queeried a decision and it took them over two weeks to reply.

Can you imagine how many rule questions the R AND A get every day?
If you have a question on a ruling, you should first contact your pro. If he/she doesn't know or you're not happy with their answer, you can ask them to double check it with R AND A

 

[Colin L]

Can you imagine how many rule questions the R AND A get every day?
If you have a question on a ruling, you should first contact your pro. If he/she doesn't know or you're not happy with their answer, you can ask them to double check it with R AND A

Or post it in the Golf Monthly rules forum! Just a click away from here and you'll not go short of an accurate answer.

 

[bobmac]

Or post it in the Golf Monthly rules forum! Just a click away from here and you'll not go short of an accurate answer.

and 20 wrong answers.

 

[Colin L]

Too harsh, Bob. You mean various explorations of possibilities are ventured, some of which are perhaps less helpful than others.

Being like most internet forums, an anarchic place, the user just has to work out over a bit of time who to rely on. I guess most do work it out.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Interesting outcome.

Seems reasonable that the R&A see it as analogous to the situation in Decision 8-1/8. The reference to "casual" is important.

Thinking about it the words "give advice" in the main Rule do imply intent as do "counsel or suggestion" in the definition as opposed to say referring to any comment that could "influence a player...."

If such a comment was intended as "advice" then, it would still be a breach as I interpret it.

 

[chrisd]

Can you imagine how many rule questions the R AND A get every day?
If you have a question on a ruling, you should first contact your pro. If he/she doesn't know or you're not happy with their answer, you can ask them to double check it with R AND A

To be honest Bob, our now ex Pro, cocked up several competitions by guessing rules of competition wrong and when I played with him he wasn't up to date with rule changes. Oh! and yes he had played some European Tour events!

 

[bobmac]

To be honest Bob, our now ex Pro, cocked up several competitions by guessing rules of competition wrong and when I played with him he wasn't up to date with rule changes. Oh! and yes he had played some European Tour events!

No-one knows all the rules and I was taught on my course, if you're not 100% sure, check with the book or the decisions book.
And as I said, if you're still not happy, you can ask them to double check it with R & A.
As with everything in this world, no-one's perfect.

 

[Foxholer]

Can you imagine how many rule questions the R AND A get every day?
If you have a question on a ruling, you should first contact your pro. If he/she doesn't know or you're not happy with their answer, you can ask them to double check it with R AND A

Nothing personal, but most Pros would not be high on my list of folk to go to for a definitive answer for questions like the one MiB asked the R&A about. My experience (a few instances and quite a few observations) is that they are wrong as often as anyone with similar experience. They are, however, a pretty good source of a Rule Book, though there's normally one in my bag anyway, and are probably a good place to start - though, as a 'breed' tend to be reluctant to say 'I don't know'!

 

[chrisd]

No-one knows all the rules and I was taught on my course, if you're not 100% sure, check with the book or the decisions book.
And as I said, if you're still not happy, you can ask them to double check it with R & A.
As with everything in this world, no-one's perfect.

A golf friend of mine from India said that when he played back there his club sponsored 3 people to do the rules course and at least one was available, by phone or in person, to try and deal with queries as and when they occurred (if possible). Over here, it seems to me, anyone knowing a few more rules than most are almost treated like they are cheats. Another golf friend said the other day that he corrected a low handicapper on measuring for a drop and got the "oh! we've got a rules man here" but in a very derogatory way!

 

[woody69]

I'm surprised this took so long to get an answer that in my mind was fairly obvious anyway. I am not sure how saying to a FC, "that's where you were aiming" would ever be taken as advice unless the person about to hit the shot specifically asked, "am I aiming to the right" etc. If I had said that to a FC, how exactly would I benefit from it?

 

[Foxholer]

No-one knows all the rules and I was taught on my course, if you're not 100% sure, check with the book or the decisions book.
And as I said, if you're still not happy, you can ask them to double check it with R & A.
As with everything in this world, no-one's perfect.

Problem is that simply giving/getting a Ruling makes most of those who query 'happy'.

So how does anyone know that they should, or shouldn't, be happy with the Ruling a Pro, or anyone else for that matter, gives them.