fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
Great post from the OP, seems to have proved his point perfectly 
Nobody knows the rules!
- Thread starter ManinBlack
- Start date
Foxholer
Blackballed
You are correct.
However, could well be a different story if the player said 'can't believe an 8 went long there' when he actually, knowingly, hit a 5!
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
Correctamundo. But how do you prove that he didn't indeed hit an 8 without looking in his bag, which I'm sure must be a breach of rules too?
One of those rules I think which requires some element of common sense, although I'm sure others would disagree and prefer no comments regarding clubs altogether.
No, actually it isn't, as long as don't have to remove or disturb anything to look. See Decision 8-1/10.
Guess you guys ought to know the definition of 'Advice', which is:
"Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.
Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice.
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
ha, I was actually going to say that if for example the person had iron headcovers on and the leather hood on his tour bag, but didn't think anybody would be that pedantic! I was wrong.
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
Surely there's going to be a lot of overlap here?
If for example on the first hole there it water at 250 yards which player A drives over. Player B is new to the course and has never met Player A and asks how far that hazard is. If Player A responds by saying "about 210" which he knows is incorrect, and Player B then hits it into the drink, surely this is influencing and determining his play.
As I said early, some of the rules with regards advice should mostly rely on common sense for 99% of golfers (those not playing for their livelihoods).
Basically, anything you can reasonably see with your own eyes is not 'advice'.
If another player asks you for a matter of public information, such as the distance to carry a water hazard, you are not obliged to give him an answer, but if you do it has to be trueful.
jimbob.someroo
Journeyman Pro
Basically, anything you can reasonably see with your own eyes is not 'advice'.
So in the case of someone with iron headcovers. Going way back the original thing I commented on, if you were to hit a 5 but say that you hit an 8 and there is no way the FC could tell, there's no penalty - it's just bad sportsmanship.
If another player asks you for a matter of public information, such as the distance to carry a water hazard, you are not obliged to give him an answer, but if you do it has to be trueful.
Again, it's bad sportsmanship but impossible to police. How do you prove somebody knows exactly how far a hazard is? Which brings me back to my point (again) about common sense. You can't penalise someone realistically for giving incorrect information because it's neigh on impossible to prove. Even with the first scenario, if someone sees what you really hit after you've declared it was an 8, you could claim you thought it was that club.
Giving deliberately misleading information to a fellow competitor is a breach of Rule 8-1, penalty 2 strokes in strokeplay and loss of hole in matchplay. OK, you may not know the exact distance to the nearest yard, but it should at least be approximately right. If you don't know, it's safer just to to say nothing.
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Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
On a Par 3, Fragger (amazingly) has the Honour.
He plays and hits the green.
I then play and hit the green.
As we walk down I say "I hit a 7 there, what did you take?"
He says" a 6".....
Any penalties...?
He plays and hits the green.
I then play and hit the green.
As we walk down I say "I hit a 7 there, what did you take?"
He says" a 6".....
Any penalties...?
Foxholer
Blackballed
Nope!
cookelad
Tour Winner
I would guess that if you were playing the first 9 of 18 on a 9hole course then perhaps there would be!
Foxholer
Blackballed
Basically, anything you can reasonably see with your own eyes is not 'advice'.
And plenty that you can't see too.
You can point out a line - over a specific point on the hill for example - or state that there are hazards etc. - even if they are not visible from the point of play.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Apart from the humiliation of taking one club more than you, no.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Nope , but i suspect this is not as clear cut question as it may seem tho :angry:
bet your gona come back with something like you have a second par 3 the same distance or something aint you Ian ?
bet your gona come back with something like you have a second par 3 the same distance or something aint you Ian ?
Again, that is information, not advice. I was referring to the case where a player looks into a fellow competitor's bag to see which club is missing while he plays his shot, which is not against the rules as long as you don't have to remove or disturb any bag or head covers, or towels draped over the bag. Likewise if he happens to see the number on the bottom of the club as the FC takes the club out of the bag or walks to the tee, that is also OK. What you can't do is ask which club he is about to play, or has just played, if it might influence your club selection or method of play.
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Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Nope, Foxy got it first. No penalties, although cookelad may have a point if it's a 9 holed played take from the same tee...
Ethan
Money List Winner
Again, that is information, not advice. I was referring to the case where a player looks into a fellow competitor's bag to see which club is missing while he plays his shot, which is not against the rules as long as you don't have to remove or disturb any bag or head covers, or towels draped over the bag.
I think the essential distinction is between facts and judgement. It is a fact that there is a pond behind that green or that it is 127 yards to the flag, but it is only a judgement or opinion that you should hit a 7 iron or play left of that tree.
I refer the Honorable Gentlemen back to the definition of advice that I have already given, and to Rule 8-1 and the related decisions.
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