Nobody knows the rules!

[Ethan]

I refer the Honorable Gentlemen back to the definition of advice that I have already given, and to Rule 8-1 and the related decisions.

Thanks, I have read the rules. I was trying to point out the underlying intent and distinction between public information and advice: one is verifiable, the other not.

 

[ManinBlack]

The first bit (club advice) - yup - stupid people. The second - telling him that that was where he was aiming - don't think so. Advise him of his misalignment BEFORE he hits - then yes. Penalty.

I think it's still against the rules ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke" a stroke i.e. any stroke in the further playing of the round. I'm going to run this past the R & A and report back.

 

[Foxholer]

I think the essential distinction is between facts and judgement. It is a fact that there is a pond behind that green or that it is 127 yards to the flag, but it is only a judgement or opinion that you should hit a 7 iron or play left of that tree.

Agree about the 7-iron. But 'the line is left of that tree' is information, not advice. However 'with your slice, you should play left of that tree' IS advice! So, once again, the Rules are absolutely spot on! Advice is defined perfectly to differentiate between those situations.

Too many folk try to interpret the Rules when the proper thing to do is apply them absolutely literally!

 

[Ethan]

Agree about the 7-iron. But 'the line is left of that tree' is information, not advice. However 'with your slice, you should play left of that tree' IS advice! So, once again, the Rules are absolutely spot on! Advice is defined perfectly to differentiate between those situations.

Too many folk try to interpret the Rules when the proper thing to do is apply them absolutely literally!

I meant the latter, although more like "with your awesome power ....."

 

[Foxholer]

I think it's still against the rules ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke" a stroke i.e. any stroke in the further playing of the round. I'm going to run this past the R & A and report back.

I'd back SILH in this one. Over-interpretation imo. If they meant 'a stroke, or any subsequent stroke', that's what they would have put! I agree that both 'a' and 'any' can be interpreted either way though.

Same logic applies where there are Par 3s of same distance/clubbing. If you ask after both played at the first of them, then the answer would/could/should be considered advice for the second of them!

 

[delc]

Thanks, I have read the rules. I was trying to point out the underlying intent and distinction between public information and advice: one is verifiable, the other not.

I'm glad somebody on this forum has actually read the rules of golf. You must be in a tiny minority, judging by some of the postings on here!

 

[Dcross92]

This is odd because everytime I play in a comp someone always asks me what club I am going with and the likes of and no one is ever penalised for this ruling. Would be shocked if someone called anyone up for any of the issues you raise at my club to be honest.

 

[ManinBlack]

I'd back SILH in this one. Over-interpretation imo. If they meant 'a stroke, or any subsequent stroke', that's what they would have put! I agree that both 'a' and 'any' can be interpreted either way though.

Same logic applies where there are Par 3s of same distance/clubbing. If you ask after both played at the first of them, then the answer would/could/should be considered advice for the second of them!

I've queried it with the R & A and will post the response when I get it. If I'm wrong I'd like to know.

 

[Ethan]

In the late 60s or early 70s, Sam Snead was playing a practice round at Augusta with a young up and coming pro. They got to the 13th, and as the young buck was getting ready, Snead said, 'Son, when I was your age, we used to hit it right over the corner of those trees'. So young buck duly aimed there, and as the ball cracked off the club, Snead said '...course in those days they were 30 feet shorter'. Ball clattered into trees 10 feet from the top and was never seen again.

So that was an example of bad and good advice mixed into one, bad because he shouldn't have taken the line, good because he learned a lesson in not being tempted into something.

 

[chrisd]

This is odd because everytime I play in a comp someone always asks me what club I am going with and the likes of and no one is ever penalised for this ruling. Would be shocked if someone called anyone up for any of the issues you raise at my club to be honest.

For me, this rule is an absolute basic of competition play. You simply can't ask someone what club they've used so that you can judge what to use yourself (or vice versa) If someone asks for a yardage I'm quite happy to Bushnell it for them as , being a question of fact, it tends to speed up their thought process and play. (Sorry SILH)

 

[kozmos]

most people probably give up looking to early.

especially when the provisional goes straight up the middle, as always:mmm: , me I'll spend all day looking for my ball, would rather keep looking and wave the peeps behind through, not so much when it's another's ball though .

 

[6inchcup]

was it BEN HOGAN who had the numbers on his clubs changed so a 5 iron was marked 6 and a 2iron as a 4 so his opponents under or over clubbed when they looked into his bag for advice on what to take?

 

[chrisd]

was it BEN HOGAN who had the numbers on his clubs changed so a 5 iron was marked 6 and a 2iron as a 4 so his opponents under or over clubbed when they looked into his bag for advice on what to take?

No, I think you'll find it's Taylor Made who stamp their clubs with a number less than it should be so that it appears that a crap golfer can hit an 8 iron 185 yards!

 

[Foxholer]

I meant the latter, although more like "with your awesome power ....."

So 'lay up short of the lake' on your 13th (off the Blacks mind) for me then!

11 was easy! Made it with yards to spare!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For me, this rule is an absolute basic of competition play. You simply can't ask someone what club they've used so that you can judge what to use yourself (or vice versa) If someone asks for a yardage I'm quite happy to Bushnell it for them as , being a question of fact, it tends to speed up their thought process and play. (Sorry SILH)

No problems old chap - especially as I agree with and rather admire your contained 'astonishment' at the blatant breach of one of the basic rules of competitive golf - you just don't ask about the club another has used or is going to use. And the fact that doing so is plainly common and accepted practice in some parts is frankly amazing.

 

[delc]

No, I think you'll find it's Taylor Made who stamp their clubs with a number less than it should be so that it appears that a crap golfer can hit an 8 iron 185 yards!

I can't, even with under-lofted Taylor Made irons. I am a 67 year old veteran though. You now need about 5 wedges to make up a decently gapped set of irons, and 3 irons are about as impossible to hit as 1 irons used to be. I'm thinking that perhaps club manufacturers should be required by the powers that be to stamp an accurate number of degrees on their clubs, rather than meaningless numbers! :mmm:

 

[golfdub]

These are stupid rules and I can't see why someone would get wound up over this.

 

[delc]

especially when the provisional goes straight up the middle, as always:mmm: , me I'll spend all day looking for my ball, would rather keep looking and wave the peeps behind through, not so much when it's another's ball though .

You are only allowed to search for a ball for 5 minutes!

 

[ManinBlack]

These are stupid rules and I can't see why someone would get wound up over this.

Because it gives the person receiving the advice a real & unfair advantage.

 

[chrisd]

These are stupid rules and I can't see why someone would get wound up over this.

I wouldn't want to be diddled out of winning a competition be someone who wouldn't have won if his mate hadn't told him what clubs to hit all the way round!