Andy808
Tour Winner
The R&A took a media hammering last time it was played at Royal St Georges by the looks of it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/13/open-golf-royal-st-georges
No women at Muirfield
- Thread starter drawboy
- Start date
The R&A took a media hammering last time it was played at Royal St Georges by the looks of it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/13/open-golf-royal-st-georges
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Does hosting the event at a male only club ruin the viewing experience for anyone on this forum?
That'll be a first.
stevie_r
Tour Winner
In_The_Rough
Tour Winner
Right. Cannot remember that at all. Far to much is made of this though.
Not me. And I bet 99.99% of the viewing public wouldn't know, or care, about the Club's policy if it wasn't for the media stirring it.
S
Snelly
Guest
I think this is a non-story.
I bet there isn't a long queue of women that want to join Muirfield. Most sensible girls would avoid this anachronistic club at all costs and more power to them. Hardly anyone really cares about this.
The whole thing is a media storm. It is lazy journalism with a really easy story on offer with the usual rent a quotes. Pathetic really. Same goes for the outpouring of angst over this on this forum. All a bit pointless.
Personally, I think it is fine for Muirfield to be male members only. It is their right. And if that means the Open doesn't come back to Muirfield then I would bet that the club aren't really bothered. They are doing the R&A a favour by hosting the tournament.
I don't care about this either way really. But I do enjoy seeing the annual spectacle of prissy liberals (usually a certain type of bloke) get their knickers in a twist at the horrific injustice of it all. In reality, most sensible women don't care about this. Neither do the Muirfield members and neither should a right thinking chap. It is just an annual bunfight, raised by the media, and tomorrow it will be forgotten as the golf will start. We will get the same stories this time next year and the same result will ensue - no change.
Lastly, I admire Muirfield for flying in the face of this. Much better to stick to your guns than take the frankly ridiculous route that Augusta have gone down with a couple of high profile, purely token, lady members.
I bet there isn't a long queue of women that want to join Muirfield. Most sensible girls would avoid this anachronistic club at all costs and more power to them. Hardly anyone really cares about this.
The whole thing is a media storm. It is lazy journalism with a really easy story on offer with the usual rent a quotes. Pathetic really. Same goes for the outpouring of angst over this on this forum. All a bit pointless.
Personally, I think it is fine for Muirfield to be male members only. It is their right. And if that means the Open doesn't come back to Muirfield then I would bet that the club aren't really bothered. They are doing the R&A a favour by hosting the tournament.
I don't care about this either way really. But I do enjoy seeing the annual spectacle of prissy liberals (usually a certain type of bloke) get their knickers in a twist at the horrific injustice of it all. In reality, most sensible women don't care about this. Neither do the Muirfield members and neither should a right thinking chap. It is just an annual bunfight, raised by the media, and tomorrow it will be forgotten as the golf will start. We will get the same stories this time next year and the same result will ensue - no change.
Lastly, I admire Muirfield for flying in the face of this. Much better to stick to your guns than take the frankly ridiculous route that Augusta have gone down with a couple of high profile, purely token, lady members.
stevie_r
Tour Winner
In a very neat nutshell
CliveW
Tour Winner
As far as I understand, the Men Only issue was raised by the Scottish Puddock, Alex Salmond, in an attempt to woo the female vote in Scotland for independance. Like the lowering of the voting age to 16 in Scotland it seems to have backfired somewhat.
Fader
Tour Winner
Total non storey imo.
the shock of a private members club deciding on what private members they admit! Its doesn't bother me either way if they have male only members or if its a mixed club. But I do also think they do have a right to host the event as their membership criteria should have no bearing on its ability to host a major event.
there's plenty of female only clubs and associations around and nobody complains about those, the irony in most of these threads and arguments is generally it isn't women doing the moaning, its usually men seeking to be overly PC and showing they are better than others etc.
There's a women's only gym near me and no guys ever complain we just join the mixed one further down the road, yes a different type of institution but same principle applies in that they only allow one gender to join but nobody moans about that however make the one down the road men only which they considered doing and the guys complained more than the girls. Why is it that feel a little scared being somewhere only men can be with no one to show off to. Who knows, but end of the day these like Muirfield et al are private clubs funded by its members and should have the right to set their own membership policies.
say you don't allow single gender clubs to host an event they then have a right to challenge the governing bodies for being discriminated against for not being given opportunity based on membership its an oroborus cycle in that there will always be someone to complain against someone about something.
Fair play to Muirfield for choosing their own criteria as is their right and is their right to apply to host the Open and hope they stick to their guns rather than allowing some ridiculous token member scheme just to fit it in with the media PC brigade.
Before anyone says it no this isn't a sexist post, i merely believe in freedom of choice and decision for all and Muirfield have that choice on membership, the R&A have that choice in choosing host club just like we all have choice in whether to watch it or not. But I bet no one will let the single gender issue get in their way at 9am when live coverage starts!
Men only, Women only who cares what any club chooses to do if we don't like it then choose to join somewhere that meets our own criteria.
right where's my soap box!
the shock of a private members club deciding on what private members they admit! Its doesn't bother me either way if they have male only members or if its a mixed club. But I do also think they do have a right to host the event as their membership criteria should have no bearing on its ability to host a major event.
there's plenty of female only clubs and associations around and nobody complains about those, the irony in most of these threads and arguments is generally it isn't women doing the moaning, its usually men seeking to be overly PC and showing they are better than others etc.
There's a women's only gym near me and no guys ever complain we just join the mixed one further down the road, yes a different type of institution but same principle applies in that they only allow one gender to join but nobody moans about that however make the one down the road men only which they considered doing and the guys complained more than the girls. Why is it that feel a little scared being somewhere only men can be with no one to show off to. Who knows, but end of the day these like Muirfield et al are private clubs funded by its members and should have the right to set their own membership policies.
say you don't allow single gender clubs to host an event they then have a right to challenge the governing bodies for being discriminated against for not being given opportunity based on membership its an oroborus cycle in that there will always be someone to complain against someone about something.
Fair play to Muirfield for choosing their own criteria as is their right and is their right to apply to host the Open and hope they stick to their guns rather than allowing some ridiculous token member scheme just to fit it in with the media PC brigade.
Before anyone says it no this isn't a sexist post, i merely believe in freedom of choice and decision for all and Muirfield have that choice on membership, the R&A have that choice in choosing host club just like we all have choice in whether to watch it or not. But I bet no one will let the single gender issue get in their way at 9am when live coverage starts!
Men only, Women only who cares what any club chooses to do if we don't like it then choose to join somewhere that meets our own criteria.
right where's my soap box!
Birchy
Money List Winner
For god sake back to this crap. Totally ridiculous non story started by somebody with nothing better to do.
How many people think the open is at a mens only club this year so im not taking up golf? Or im selling my clubs because women should be allowed?
All this crap about bad image and bad PR is a load of absolute cobblers.
How many people think the open is at a mens only club this year so im not taking up golf? Or im selling my clubs because women should be allowed?
All this crap about bad image and bad PR is a load of absolute cobblers.
Moquillo19
Assistant Pro
There must be something in single sex clubs that people want and are willing to pay for too. I wonder how many clubs would survive without letting half of the population be a member and contribute to their income. The ladies at my club are always working for the benefit of the club and are an asset.
But I really don't care if clubs like Muirfield or St Georges let women in or not. I just can't wait for the golf to start. I wouldn't join either as the newest member probably has to set the tables, organise charity raffles, summer balls, discos, quizzes and dish out the cards etc on open day. I don't want to do any of that but appreciate those that do. Thanks Ladies!!
But I really don't care if clubs like Muirfield or St Georges let women in or not. I just can't wait for the golf to start. I wouldn't join either as the newest member probably has to set the tables, organise charity raffles, summer balls, discos, quizzes and dish out the cards etc on open day. I don't want to do any of that but appreciate those that do. Thanks Ladies!!
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Firstly for all those who say it is not a story then read the papers or listen to the radio or watch TV or look on twitter, in the real world it is a story. It dominated the R&A press conference yesterday and has been commented on by all of the broadsheets, radio and TV. So unless you are sticking your head in the sand, which seems to be the approach of a few on here, like it or not, it, and not the fact that they have 6 new tees, is the dominant story of this years Open up to yet.
Firstly I would say from a moral point of view it is very wrong. End of. These clubs were formed when women could not have the vote and were very much second class citizens, but times and attitudes have changed in the UK (in most places anyway).
Also, like it or not, the agenda is set my the media. It is exactly the same in politics where the government or opposition want to make something a story, but the media print what they want to print or say. Political parties realise this and very often people lose their positions because of the perceived harm they do for the party. It is in most cases not the actual thing they have done, but the damage they are causing the party due to the media's take on it. You may not like this and rail against it not being right blah blah blah, but that's how it is and and modern organisation realise this. It is all about perception nowadays.
And I think we can all agree that the perception of golf, and in particular the R&A, is that it is run by middle aged white blazer wearing males. And also this perception is doing the game some damage when it comes to increased participation by people who are not white males. White males members of golf clubs may not think it is a problem, but many others do. Lots of lots of good work is being done at grass roots level. But perception trumps facts. And by taking the arguably most famous golf tournament to a single sex golf club they are saying to all those who want to knock the game, come on, please reinforce those stereotypes of being out of date sexist old farts. Those stereotypes may well be not 100% correct, but it is effectively creating an open goal for the media. And liberal wishy washies like me. And women.
There has been some utter misogynist crap in this post and I am not sure if it is just trolling or some people genuinely do not believe in inclusion and are stuck in the 1970s. As a male who likes golf, I find it a bit embarrassing to be honest and find it a lot more offensive then if someone uses a few asterisks and the odd mild swear word which we can't have as it may harm the image of the forum. But of course everyone is entitled to their views and comment is free. It's just that it would be good for the game if those people are not in charge of the future of the game. I totally agree the Augusta thing was a token gesture. But it has changed the perception of the game for the better there and taken the heat off. Also for all the stick the USGA gets, they do have a policy of not awarding the US Open to single sex clubs. Again probably a token gesture and I am not sure how many there are in the US that are capable of hosting the open. But yet again, it's about perception.
And despite all the arguments about members doing what they want, blah blah, no one has yet given an answer to why it is different to excluding blacks people to excluding women from being members and joining the club. And if they could, would these golf clubs exclude black people from being members? As the perception they are giving is that they do not believe in racial discrimination, but only sexual discrimination.
Firstly I would say from a moral point of view it is very wrong. End of. These clubs were formed when women could not have the vote and were very much second class citizens, but times and attitudes have changed in the UK (in most places anyway).
Also, like it or not, the agenda is set my the media. It is exactly the same in politics where the government or opposition want to make something a story, but the media print what they want to print or say. Political parties realise this and very often people lose their positions because of the perceived harm they do for the party. It is in most cases not the actual thing they have done, but the damage they are causing the party due to the media's take on it. You may not like this and rail against it not being right blah blah blah, but that's how it is and and modern organisation realise this. It is all about perception nowadays.
And I think we can all agree that the perception of golf, and in particular the R&A, is that it is run by middle aged white blazer wearing males. And also this perception is doing the game some damage when it comes to increased participation by people who are not white males. White males members of golf clubs may not think it is a problem, but many others do. Lots of lots of good work is being done at grass roots level. But perception trumps facts. And by taking the arguably most famous golf tournament to a single sex golf club they are saying to all those who want to knock the game, come on, please reinforce those stereotypes of being out of date sexist old farts. Those stereotypes may well be not 100% correct, but it is effectively creating an open goal for the media. And liberal wishy washies like me. And women.
There has been some utter misogynist crap in this post and I am not sure if it is just trolling or some people genuinely do not believe in inclusion and are stuck in the 1970s. As a male who likes golf, I find it a bit embarrassing to be honest and find it a lot more offensive then if someone uses a few asterisks and the odd mild swear word which we can't have as it may harm the image of the forum. But of course everyone is entitled to their views and comment is free. It's just that it would be good for the game if those people are not in charge of the future of the game. I totally agree the Augusta thing was a token gesture. But it has changed the perception of the game for the better there and taken the heat off. Also for all the stick the USGA gets, they do have a policy of not awarding the US Open to single sex clubs. Again probably a token gesture and I am not sure how many there are in the US that are capable of hosting the open. But yet again, it's about perception.
And despite all the arguments about members doing what they want, blah blah, no one has yet given an answer to why it is different to excluding blacks people to excluding women from being members and joining the club. And if they could, would these golf clubs exclude black people from being members? As the perception they are giving is that they do not believe in racial discrimination, but only sexual discrimination.
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CheltenhamHacker
Journeyman Pro
Because there is no difference between a black man and a white man. There are differences between men and women? The very fact there are mens and ladies tees reflect these.
You could also say that by having women only clubs, they give legitimacy to men only clubs? You don't see "black people only" clubs, therefore no white people only?
I'm still yet to decide where I stand on this argument, so only offer the above as a devils advocate
North Mimms
Tour Winner
Are there any Neanderthals only golf clubs?
There's some potential members on this forum.
(and thankfully lots who would fail the selection procedure)
There's some potential members on this forum.
(and thankfully lots who would fail the selection procedure)
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Yes that is right, but you are referring to physical differences which to me should have no baring whatsoever on if someone could join a club? That would be more relevant if the argument was why women could not play in the mens Open. Which it is not.
And women only clubs sprung up purely because in the day they were excluded from men only clubs. It was a reaction to their exclusion.
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chrisd
Major Champion
Come Monday morning Hacker, nothing will have changed, no one will care, and Muirfield will carry on as it has always done and remain a men only club!
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Very true. And participation in golf will still be going down, membership will still be falling and the perception of golf, especially those who run golf by the general public and some potential members will still not be very good.
CheltenhamHacker
Journeyman Pro
Very true. And participation in golf will still be going down, membership will still be falling and the perception of golf, especially those who run golf by the general public and some potential members will still not be very good.
Genuine question, but is it actually going down? I haven't seen any figures either way, but I swear more and more people I know are playing, the driving range is always busy, the course has always got a fair few greenfees on. Could it be that due to many different reasons, the participation in golf is staying the same, but memberships are declining? I know many friends who love to play golf but don't want to join one particular place...
G
guest100718
Guest
meh
