Naming a provisional ball

[Backache]

Not really.
''Hang on fellas, I'm going to hit a provisional''
Or
''Hang on fellas, I'm going to hit another and it's not a provisional''

It's not difficult...once you've learned the new archaic language of golf.

I agree it shouldn't be difficult, the problem is that locally there seems to be a widespread belief that every second ball you put in play is a provisional ball no matter what you say.

 

[Slab]

"To save time I'll hit another"

Provisional or not?

Spoiler: Spoiler

Hell yeah its a prov

 

[Swango1980]

"To save time I'll hit another"

Provisional or not?

Spoiler: Spoiler

Hell yeah its a prov

Funny, doesn't seem like a definitive statement at all. To save time could easily be a player saying "I can't be bothered looking for the original, to save time I'll just play stroke and distance"

 

[bobmac]

"I can't be bothered looking for the original, to save time I'll just play stroke and distance"

You mean, you're not going to hit a provisional?

Yes

 

[Slab]

Funny, doesn't seem like a definitive statement at all. To save time could easily be a player saying "I can't be bothered looking for the original, to save time I'll just play stroke and distance"

Actually that point of view hadn't occurred to me (although I prefer mine obviously )

 

[rulefan]

"To save time I'll hit another"

Provisional or not?

The second ball is now in play. But I would ask the player for confirmation of his intent.

The only saving of time would be not searching for the original. How else would there be a saving of time?

 

[bobmac]

I agree it shouldn't be difficult, the problem is that locally there seems to be a widespread belief that every second ball you put in play is a provisional ball no matter what you say.

I don't buy that, especially if you say
''Hang on fellas, I'm going to hit another and it's not a provisional''
Nothing ambiguous, nothing that needs committee approval or an archaic dictionary

 

[Swango1980]

You mean, you're not going to hit a provisional?

No, I mean exactly what I said.

I thought you were out? Or can you just not resist spamming a Rules forum with your opinions? I get it, you want the rule changed so that a player can get a penalty if they don't say the word "provisional" exactly. But, I'm pretty sure the rule is extremely uncontroversial as it stands, so I doubt it will be changed anytime soon.

 

[bobmac]

I thought you were out?

Why did you think that?

 

[Swango1980]

I've given my opinion so I'm done

That's why

 

[bobmac]

I said done, not out.
Two different words, two different meanings.
Important to know the difference, especially given the topic of the conversation where words used are important.

And as far as opinions are concerned, I'm entitled to one and unless I am breaking the rules of the forum, I will continue to express mine, with or without your permission.

 

[Slab]

The second ball is now in play. But I would ask the player for confirmation of his intent.

The only saving of time would be not searching for the original. How else would there be a saving of time?

Don't the USGA / R&A both say under 18.3 a provisional ball can be played "to save time"? Has it any other use?
GM def say the purpose of a provisional is to save time https://www.golfmonthly.com/videos/rules/golf-rules-explained-provisional-ball

 

[wjemather]

Don't the USGA say under 18.3 a provisional ball can be played "to save time"? Has it any other use?
GM def say the purpose of a provisional is to save time https://www.golfmonthly.com/videos/rules/golf-rules-explained-provisional-ball

Yes, playing a provisional does save time, but you would also save time by abandoning a first ball that may require a search and playing a second immediately under stroke and distance. As such, "saving time" is not a clear indication that a provisional ball is being played.

 

[Slab]

Yes, playing a provisional does save time, but you would also save time by abandoning a first ball that may require a search and playing a second immediately under stroke and distance. As such, "saving time" is not a clear indication that a provisional ball is being played.

But I don't think either USGA or R&A say anything about not searching in order to save time but they both explicitly say exactly that about playing another ball provisionally

If the above is true then if playing a reload specifically (& stated by player) 'to save time' then that ball must be a provisional ?

 

[wjemather]

But I don't think either USGA or R&A say anything about not searching in order to save time but they both explicitly say exactly that about playing another ball provisionally

If the above is true then if playing a reload specifically (& stated by player) 'to save time' then that ball must be a provisional ?

No.
The rules do not limit time-saving to the playing of a provisional ball.

 

[LincolnShep]

Requiring new players to learn a vocabulary is order to avoid penalties and/or disadvantage is ridiculous.
And we certainly don't need rules that penalise the failure to use a specific word when the player has made their intention perfectly clear.

If you understand the concept of a provisional ball, you also know the word. Nobody is explaining the rule to you without using the word.

 

[jim8flog]

I've given my opinion so I'm done

Is that a provisional statement in case you see something else you want to reply to

 

[cliveb]

The ongoing debate about whether particular wordings can be interpreted as the player intending to play a provisional clearly demonstrates that there is scope for ambiguity and misunderstanding.

Surely it's just much simpler for the player to clearly state "this is a provisional" or "this is not a provisional". Then all possibility of misunderstanding is eliminated.

 

[bobmac]

Is that a provisional statement in case you see something else you want to reply to

No I was merely saying to wjemather I was done talking to him. If he wanted to go round and round in circles with a bit of name calling, then fine but I've said my piece I'm done talking to him as there's nothing much more to say, I'm done.

The ongoing debate about whether particular wordings can be interpreted as the player intending to play a provisional clearly demonstrates that there is scope for ambiguity and misunderstanding.

Surely it's just much simpler for the player to clearly state "this is a provisional" or "this is not a provisional". Then all possibility of misunderstanding is eliminated.

At last, someone else see my simple, straightforward and clear point of view which is not open to misinterpretation.
Thank you Cliveb for saving my sanity.

 

[Neilds]

No I was merely saying to wjemather I was done talking to him. If he wanted to go round and round in circles with a bit of name calling, then fine but I've said my piece I'm done talking to him as there's nothing much more to say.


At last, someone else see my simple, straightforward and clear point of view which is not open to misinterpretation.
Thank you Cliveb for saving my sanity.

I was supporting you as well