Naming a provisional ball

[wjemather]

I am suggesting that the player states
''I'm hitting a provisional''
You can't get any clearer than that.


You mean the word ''provisional'' is unnecessary?

Yes, they could say that, but they don't need to, because the word "provisional" is not necessary in order to clearly convey the intention - as is abundantly clear in the the rules.
Language allows for countless means of expression to make the intention plain (and no less clear) and the rules rightly allow for that.

Requiring use of a specific word to avoid penalty/disadvantage - that is pedantic.

 

[Neilds]

Yes, they could say that, but they don't need to, but the word "provisional" is not necessary - as is abundantly clear in the the rules.
Language allows for countless means of expression to make the intention plain (and no less clear) and the rules rightly allow for that.

Requiring use of a specific word to avoid penalty/disadvantage - that is pedantic.

I am in agreement with Bob on this one. If the rule states you must say "This is a provisional" and nothing else, then there is no leeway. Who decides what is similar to the word 'provisional'? Do people make a note of what was said and report to the committee/organiser for a ruling if someone is adamant that they indicated it was a provisional by their words/actions without actually using the word "provisional"?
Surely this is no more specific than stating which side of the OOB marker denotes the edge of the course?

 

[IanM]

Crikey, much ado about nowt. When I am playing with someone, if there is any doubt in what they are doing, I'll ask them. Can't remember which Tour Pro said to his pp, "Careful, we don't need any penalties here!" That's the decent thing to do.

If I am playing with a newbie, I will politely explain why they need to be clear(er).

 

[woofers]

Is it "under" or "in accordance with?"

“Under”

Rules of Golf, Clarifications 18.3b:

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[Crow]

Which the following options would meet the requirements of rule 18.3 after a player has hit one into deep rough:

I'm going to hit another ball because I'm allowed to.

I don't like the look of that, I'll hit another.

Looking at the sky in disgust, saying nothing, pulling a ball out of your bag, showing it to everybody and hitting it.

Did that go in the hedge? I think it'll be a good idea to hit another.

Swearing loudly, glaring at everyone and hitting another saying "that better not be lost as well".

I'm going to hit a provisional.

You can look for that, I'm hitting another.

Is that lost? Wait while I hit another.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Blimey

We are grown adults

Just ensure you are making it clear that the ball you are putting in play is a provisional ball then that should be more than enough for sensible people

 

[Colin L]

Which the following options would meet the requirements of rule 18.3 after a player has hit one into deep rough:

I'm going to hit another ball because I'm allowed to.

I don't like the look of that, I'll hit another.

Looking at the sky in disgust, saying nothing, pulling a ball out of your bag, showing it to everybody and hitting it.

Did that go in the hedge? I think it'll be a good idea to hit another.

Swearing loudly, glaring at everyone and hitting another saying "that better not be lost as well".

I'm going to hit a provisional.

You can look for that, I'm hitting another.

Is that lost? Wait while I hit another.

Only No. 6 is clear. No. 4 is close, but risky. The others could equally apply to playing under stroke and distance.

 

[Crow]

Only No. 6 is clear. No. 4 is close, but risky. The others could equally apply to playing under stroke and distance.

Precisely, ambiguity of the rules.

They could all be classed as intention to play a provisional, or not, apart from number 6.

 

[wjemather]

Precisely, ambiguity of the rules.

They could all be classed as intention to play a provisional, or not, apart from number 6.

No, they couldn't. Only one of your examples gives a clear indication. With no clear indication, the ball is not a provisional.

 

[Neilds]

No, they couldn't. Only one of your examples gives a clear indication. With no clear indication, the ball is not a provisional.

As I mentioned earlier, who decides what is clear or not?

 

[Crow]

No, they couldn't. Only one of your examples gives a clear indication. With no clear indication, the ball is not a provisional.

Thank you very much!

 

[wjemather]

As I mentioned earlier, who decides what is clear or not?

The committee, as always.
However, if the committee needs to be called upon to make a decision, then it's unlikely that the indication was clear - unless, of course, there is someone wrongly insisting that the word provisional must be used.

 

[Neilds]

The committee, as always.
However, if the committee needs to be called upon to make a decision, then it's unlikely that the indication was clear - unless, of course, there is someone wrongly insisting that the word provisional must be used.

And, as Bobmac said, this could all be avoided by cutting the last part of the rule and saying you must say 'provisional'

 

[Colin L]

Precisely, ambiguity of the rules.

They could all be classed as intention to play a provisional, or not, apart from number 6.

Not at all. The rule is unambiguous: you have to make it clear that the ball you are going to play is a provisional. If a player fails to be clear, don't blame the rule.

 

[wjemather]

And, as Bobmac said, this could all be avoided by cutting the last part of the rule and saying you must say 'provisional'

The inevitable consequence of that would be disqualifying players because they have not used exactly the right word(s).
No thanks.

 

[Swango1980]

I often use the phrase

"I am playing an IRA one"

If you are playing a well known Titleist ball does saying I am playing a Pro v count?

Definitely the sort of banter that could be taken the wrong way if you were playing with someone from Northern Ireland. I'll refrain from that one when I go back home and ever play golf there.

It's like when playing with a Welsh person, I don't use the "Dead Sheep" gag when someone takes their putt, and their ball finishes they haven't lost their turn

 

[Crow]

The inevitable consequence of that would be disqualifying players because they have not used exactly the right word(s).
No thanks.

Yet you're happy to DQ 7 out of the 8 examples I gave of players putting a provisional ball into play just because they didn't use the right words, in your opinion.

 

[wjemather]

Yet you're happy to DQ 7 out of the 8 examples I gave of players putting a provisional ball into play just because they didn't use the right words, in your opinion.

In 7 of your 8 examples the player did not put a provisional into play because they did not use any words to that effect.

 

[Backache]

I guess human perception about what is clear and unambiguous varies.
The reality is that if someone has muttered something I am certainly going to take their word for it that they meant provisional if that's what they say afterwards. Others may differ.

 

[rosecott]

I guess human perception about what is clear and unambiguous varies.
The reality is that if someone has muttered something I am certainly going to take their word for it that they meant provisional if that's what they say afterwards. Others may differ.

And, if that person has a reputation - that you are unaware of - of always mumbling so that he keeps his options open. There are such people around.