Naming a provisional ball

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I guess human perception about what is clear and unambiguous varies.
The reality is that if someone has muttered something I am certainly going to take their word for it that they meant provisional if that's what they say afterwards. Others may differ.

If I'm not sure or it's clear to me that they haven't formally declared a provisional I will always ask, and press for clarity. I usually don't have to ask the same player again.

 

[Crow]

In 7 of your 8 examples the player did not put a provisional into play because they did not use any words to that effect.

But if they add "just in case" they did?

What about the player in my example 4 who said "Did that go in the hedge?", surely they are opening the question of doubt about the ball in the same way your example of "just in case" does.
Likewise example 8, "Is that lost?", again opening the question as to whether the ball might not be found.

It seems to me that the rule as is requires the player to learn and understand some subtle nuances of language, that can be interpreted differently by different people, rather than learning the meaning and how to pronounce one archaic word.

 

[jim8flog]

But if they add "just in case" they did?

What about the player in my example 4 who said "Did that go in the hedge?", surely they are opening the question of doubt about the ball in the same way your example of "just in case" does.
Likewise example 8, "Is that lost?", again opening the question as to whether the ball might not be found.

It seems to me that the rule as is requires the player to learn and understand some subtle nuances of language, that can be interpreted differently by different people, rather than learning the meaning and how to pronounce one archaic word.

Archaic ha ha ha.

It is a commonly used word e.g provisional driving licence.

 

[Imurg]

Archaic ha ha ha.

According to some......

 

[wjemather]

But if they add "just in case" they did?

What about the player in my example 4 who said "Did that go in the hedge?", surely they are opening the question of doubt about the ball in the same way your example of "just in case" does.
Likewise example 8, "Is that lost?", again opening the question as to whether the ball might not be found.

It seems to me that the rule as is requires the player to learn and understand some subtle nuances of language, that can be interpreted differently by different people, rather than learning the meaning and how to pronounce one archaic word.

Yes, because that is a clear indication.

They are doing nothing more than asking if their original ball went in the hedge or is lost, and saying that they are going to hit another ball.

No, the rule just requires the player to be clear about the status of their second ball. In the absence of a clear indication, the default is that it is the ball in play and stroke and distance applies.

 

[bobmac]

No, the rule just requires the player to be clear about the status of their second ball. In the absence of a clear indication, the default is that it is the ball in play and stroke and distance applies.

There is no clearer way to describe the status of your ball than by saying ''I'm hitting a provisional ball''.
If committees have to get involved to decide what the player meant, that proves my point.
KISS
Imho

 

[wjemather]

There is no clearer way to describe the status of your ball than by saying ''I'm hitting a provisional ball''.
If committees have to get involved to decide what the player meant, that proves my point.
KISS
Imho

No doubt, but it isn't the only way, and nor should it be.
Nothing is simpler than allowing any word or words that convey the required meaning.

 

[bobmac]

I've given my opinion so I'm done

 

[Swango1980]

I've given my opinion so I'm done

What's the point of such a statement?

Surely you could just give your opinion, and then actually be done?

 

[Crow]

My examples did

Nothing is simpler than allowing any word or words that convey the required meaning.

Several of my examples did and I'm pretty sure that PPs would be happy with them and (outside of a debate on an online forum) many rules officials would be too.

 

[Swango1980]

My examples did


Several of my examples did and I'm pretty sure that PPs would be happy with them and (outside of a debate on an online forum) many rules officials would be too.

Many people you play with would also let you have 4 minutes to look for a ball or won't be too bothered if you drop slightly out of the defined range.

What PPs are happy with has little relevance to what the actual protocol should be.

 

[Crow]

Incidentally rules people, have any of you ever had to deal with a situation where the validity of a provisional ball was called into question?

(Apologies for the use of the P word)

 

[Swango1980]

Incidentally rules people, have any of you ever had to deal with a situation where the validity of a provisional ball was called into question?

(Apologies for the use of the P word)

Yeah. For example, when someone says "I'm reloading". I just ask if it is a provisional

I know a couple of people, who do know the rules and will sometimes just hit 3 off the tee when they know their original is dead. So, there are legitimate reasons to not automatically be hitting a provisional, so it's a good idea to be clear.

 

[Crow]

Yeah. For example, when someone says "I'm reloading". I just ask if it is a provisional

I know a couple of people, who do know the rules and will sometimes just hit 3 off the tee when they know their original is dead. So, there are legitimate reasons to not automatically be hitting a provisional, so it's a good idea to be clear.

I obviously didn't word the question very well.

Have any of you had to deal with a situation where the validity of a provisional ball was called into question by another player after the finding of the first ball?

Situation - Player A hits first ball, then says something to Player B and hits another.
They get to where the first ball went and find it.
Player A then hits first ball, but Player B doesn't think that Player A correctly expressed that they were playing a provisional ball and calls for a ruling.

 

[Backache]

And, if that person has a reputation - that you are unaware of - of always mumbling so that he keeps his options open. There are such people around.

I guess I trust most of my fellow competitors.

To be honest the biggest difficulty with some is explaining that the ball I'm about to play is not provisional but I'm putting a new ball into play.
There are a few people who seem to think if I find my first the second is no longer in play.

 

[Swango1980]

I guess I trust most of my fellow competitors.

To be honest the biggest difficulty with some is explaining that the ball I'm about to play is not provisional but I'm putting a new ball into play.
There are a few people who seem to think if I find my first the second is no longer in play.

Yeah. Some people even think you MUST make an effort to look for your original

 

[rosecott]

I guess I trust most of my fellow competitors.

To be honest the biggest difficulty with some is explaining that the ball I'm about to play is not provisional but I'm putting a new ball into play.
There are a few people who seem to think if I find my first the second is no longer in play.

No explanation is needed. You say nothing and hit another ball. It is the ball in play.

 

[Backache]

No explanation is needed. You say nothing and hit another ball. It is the ball in play.

No explanation may be required in the rules of golf.
I can assure you that an explanation is needed to assuage my fellow golfers who are less familiar with the rules but have various hand me down beliefs.

 

[Colin L]

Hand me down beliefs?

Don't mention d.-------g a ball lost.

 

[bobmac]

I obviously didn't word the question very well.

Nope, it was worded perfectly, unfortunately it was read wrongly

To be honest the biggest difficulty with some is explaining that the ball I'm about to play is not provisional but I'm putting a new ball into play.

Not really.
''Hang on fellas, I'm going to hit a provisional''
Or
''Hang on fellas, I'm going to hit another and it's not a provisional''

It's not difficult...once you've learned the new archaic language of golf.