Muirfield, women, the R&A and The Open

Would there still be the same Moral outrage and same old Stereotypes thrown around if this was about a Ladies Club voting to stay a single Sex Club and losing the Ladies Open? I doubt it very much and rightly so.

If being a member of a Single Sex Golf Club makes the members of the HCEG happy then just let them get on with it, the R&A have Done what was expected of them.

The HCEG has just become a single sex Golf club which is now no different to St Rule, Elie Ladies, Lundin Ladies, Wirral ladies, Formby ladies and the Ladies Putting Club of St Andrews and personally Id be uncomfortable seeing the lady members of those clubs forced into allowing Male members if they're currently happy with the make up of their club.

Or am I missing something? Is anything Male Orientated/ Dominated seen as sexist and requires breaking down and the opposite Quaint, Traditional and requires preserving. I honestly don't see the difference.
 
As a complete aside, it is dress down day in my office today. Women can wear shorts and short skirts but men have to wear long trousers or jeans.

I would like to wear shorts on a warm day.
 
The 2/3 required to carry a decision is strange in that 36% won over 64%, not very democratic.

To understand it if you're a male (dare I say it older) member of said club and you put your 'selfish' hat on you've now got no Open which means more undisturbed golf, not weeks of interruption every 8 or 10 years, the course will remain quieter with enough tee times for the gentleman members to get the uncrowded fairways that such club exclusivity and fees demand, there are dozens of other courses in the area after all. You dont want the Open or other big events, you just want the peace and quiet of your club/course. If the reputation of the course suffers so be it, less people come which is good for you as there are more free tee times and the club doesn't need money, the membership fees cover that fine. If you're a club of 650 men and do suddenly admit female members, how many are you supposed to admit - another 650 or maybe 300? That will overwhelm the nature of the club as it is, so if you do admit female members, do you need to reduce the male membership to accomodate numbers, reduce the membership fee etc etc.
Looks like a simple 'let ladies in' call but it's maybe not that simple really.
The press stuff will die away and they'll be left with an even more exclusive and private club, will suit many of them to a tee be that right or wrong.

I think its a shame they didn't move for change, this is a golf club, you must treat people equally. Peter Alliss is out of touch on this and it reinforces the stereotype of how most of the public perceive golf clubs alas, embarrassing for Scotland too.

Maybe wannabee POTUS Trump will put in a shout for his Balmedie links as an alternate venue! If we don't comply he nukes us!:mmm:
 
I guess it's up to each individual party to decide for themselves. Muirfield have decided not to admit women members, the R&A have decided not to hold the Open there. Fair enough. However, I do think its a bit rich of the R&A to set themselves up as the bastions of gender equality when they only voted to allow women members themselves in September 2014 ( whether they have a golf course or not is irrelevant in regard to gender equality and admission to their organisation).
The bad publicity is a shame for the game and the whole matter of both genders playing equally needs to be resolved. I don't think anyone has all the answers though.
 
Also worth noting that there's 200+ years of antagonism and rivalry that exists between the R&A and the HCEG. It's no real surprise that the HCEG don't really care much for the opinion the R&A have about how to manage membership.

To be perfectly honest, in this situation everyone comes out a winner. HGEC as a private members club get to do what their members want. The R&A get to take the moral high ground as the arbiters of equality and leadership of the game. It satisfies both groups of people in terms of equality and exclusivity.

The only downside is the Open won't be at Muirfield in the next couple of decades. That will probably change in the future and, really, is it a bad thing that the Open rota gets to feature some new courses? The rota already was quite packed and getting to move it around a little bit seems a good thing.
 
Just read about their tradition of playing foursomes. Why would anybody want to join a golf club where you only ever get to play half a round? Seems to me that the reason for being a member there must be for the perceived social status it affords rather than to enjoy the golf.
 
Qwerty said:
Would there still be the same Moral outrage and same old Stereotypes thrown around if this was about a Ladies Club voting to stay a single Sex Club and losing the Ladies Open? I doubt it very much and rightly so.

If being a member of a Single Sex Golf Club makes the members of the HCEG happy then just let them get on with it, the R&A have Done what was expected of them.

The HCEG has just become a single sex Golf club which is now no different to St Rule, Elie Ladies, Lundin Ladies, Wirral ladies, Formby ladies and the Ladies Putting Club of St Andrews and personally Id be uncomfortable seeing the lady members of those clubs forced into allowing Male members if they're currently happy with the make up of their club.

Or am I missing something? Is anything Male Orientated/ Dominated seen as sexist and requires breaking down and the opposite Quaint, Traditional and requires preserving. I honestly don't see the difference.
Click to expand...

The difference is, that these ladies clubs were formed as an answer to a club policy by their male counterparts, because that's what the ladies had to do if they wanted to play golf and have a club life as well. Because they weren't allowed in. Show me the one exclusively male only golfclub that was formed as a response to a ladies lcub already in existence, because the guys weren't allowed in and I am willing to agree with you.
 
cliveb said:
Just read about their tradition of playing foursomes. Why would anybody want to join a golf club where you only ever get to play half a round? Seems to me that the reason for being a member there must be for the perceived social status it affords rather than to enjoy the golf.
Click to expand...

I played it in either a 3 or 4 ball, can't remember which. There are loads of other clubs that are still 2ball/4somes......Rye and West Sussex spring to mind.
 
chippa1909 said:
Is discrimination by accident of birth, or "breeding" any better than discrimination by gender?
Click to expand...

Nope still not seeing the connection with the Royal family and Muirfield

Is there discrimination within the Royal Family ?
 
lex! said:
Just seen a bit about it on the news on TV. Showed a bunch of old gits in tweed breeches at the club who could barely make 20 yards off the tee. Wearing the correct regimental tie however. Typical of attitudes north of the border. Little lady stays at haeme.
Click to expand...

I've been on this forum for a number of years and I'm seriously struggling to remember a more ridiculous post!
I have absolutly no issues for single-sex clubs, be they male or female.
 
Sweep said:
However, I do think its a bit rich of the R&A to set themselves up as the bastions of gender equality when they only voted to allow women members themselves in September 2014 ( whether they have a golf course or not is irrelevant in regard to gender equality and admission to their organisation).
Click to expand...

That was the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews. Since 2004 they have been a separate entity to the R&A which runs the Open. See my post above.
 
lex! said:
Well done. However, the point, is that this episode is an embarrassment for the country and for the sport.
Click to expand...

The country ?

Nothing to do with the country as a whole and shouldn't have any reflection on Scotland
 
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