MLR K1...pace of play

[rulie]

A few thoughts:
It’s as bad to force slow players to play quicker as it is to force quick players to play slower - so it seems an almost impossible problem to alleviate without upsetting certain groups of each club.

If - as I often see - a group reaches a tee and they all stand there checking scores and entering them on a card - or app - and then decide who’s honour it is - spending just a minute on each tee then that is almost 20[17 being pedantic!) minutes added to their round.

As others have said penalties would likely affect all players in a group .

I think quicker players in a group should be encouraging their slow member to speed up - ‘Come on guys we’re in danger of losing/ we’ve lost a hole - we need to speed up’

Definitely agree, and that's what happens in our groups. It is the players' responsibility to play at the pace expected by the Committee.
Bobmac isn't into "forcing" anyone to adhere to any pace of play, but is into forcing ("encouraging") slow players to play at specific times of the day or draw.

 

[Colin L]

Definitely agree, and that's what happens in our groups. It is the players' responsibility to play at the pace expected by the Committee.
Bobmac isn't into "forcing" anyone to adhere to any pace of play, but is into forcing ("encouraging") slow players to play at specific times of the day or draw.

It's interesting to hear that the group penalty threat works pragmatically in terms of achieving the desired outcome and presumably without an outcry of injustice from players, but nothing is going to shake my belief that the principle of punishing or threatening to punish an innocent person for the misdemeanours of others is anything but wholly wrong. But pragmatism rules, ok.

 

[D-S]

I assume in the ‘slow players are forced to play at the end of the competition’ scenario, all players who happen to be playing after the end of the competition just have to endure a really slow round?

 

[bobmac]

Definitely agree, and that's what happens in our groups. It is the players' responsibility to play at the pace expected by the Committee.
Bobmac isn't into "forcing" anyone to adhere to any pace of play, but is into forcing ("encouraging") slow players to play at specific times of the day or draw.

No. Again.
My whole argument is NOT forcing anyone to do anything.
I'm not forcing anyone to play faster or slower, I want the players to have the choice.
If they enjoy running round in under 3 hours, choose an early tee time.
If you want to bimble round in 5 hours, choose a late tee time, the system would police itself and everyone is happy.

I assume in the ‘slow players are forced to play at the end of the competition’ scenario, all players who happen to be playing after the end of the competition just have to endure a really slow round?

If you tee off behind any comp, it's going to be slow but as I said before the normal rules of calling through would still apply.

 

[Swango1980]

There's so much in there I disagree with and I'd just be repeating myself.
But I will ask... why do you want the fast players to slow down and the slow players to speed up ?

That's fine, it doesn't seem to be a unique experience judging by other comments on the thread

As to your last question, why not? If players are slow because they are looking for golf balls or have a lot of shots, then there is little that can be done to speed them up, fair enough. But, if they are looking for balls, then speed of play shouldn't be an issue if they let others through while looking. However, there are slow play issues that are a result of player habits. Habits that could easily be remedied without them having to feel rushed. Preparing for shots, or getting closer to their own ball, while others play instead of standing motionless doing nothing. Playing ready golf. Maybe saving their amusing story for after their shot, instead of beginning it before they play. Trying to make their pre-shot routine a bit more efficient.

Then for the golfers that like to finish their golf in world record times, they just need to be aware they don't own the course. Others are playing. Hopefully you get let through, but if the course is busy in front, possibly not. If you are in a rush to get somewhere after golf, then just don't play in the competition (or book an earlier time in social play, request an earlier time in comp if allowed). If you do not desperately need to be anywhere, relax. Pace yourself a bit. Enjoy the game you choose to play.

I think your suggestion, from what I seen, is just a bad idea. Fast players out first, slow players out last. How do you define a fast and slow player. What is a medium paced player? Who produces the data for each player, so that they can be suitable placed in one of these categories? What if a fast player plays slowly one week, or a slow player starts playing more quickly? How would you know they are quicker, if they are out last and stuck behind other slow groups? Do fast players have to get up at the crack of dawn all the time, and slow players have the whole day pretty much taken up doe to a late start?

Are you a fast player relative to the average golfer?

 

[Swango1980]

No. Again.
My whole argument is NOT forcing anyone to do anything.
I'm not forcing anyone to play faster or slower, I want the players to have the choice.
If they enjoy running round in under 3 hours, choose an early tee time.
If you want to bimble round in 5 hours, choose a late tee time, the system would police itself and everyone is happy.

If you tee off behind any comp, it's going to be slow but as I said before the normal rules of calling through would still apply.

What if they choose an early time, and then bimble round in 5 hours?

 

[bobmac]

It's interesting to hear that the group penalty threat works pragmatically in terms of achieving the desired outcome and presumably without an outcry of injustice from players, but nothing is going to shake my belief that the principle of punishing or threatening to punish an innocent person for the misdemeanours of others is anything but wholly wrong. But pragmatism rules, ok.

I played in Spain once with another pro and a 4 h/cp and we weren't hanging around. After 3 or 4 holes we caught up with a very slow 4 ball who would not let us through. Fortunately, they packed in after 9. By the time we got to the 10th tee, the starter gave us hell for losing 3 holes on the group in front

 

[bobmac]

What if they choose an early time, and then bimble round in 5 hours?

The sprinters would probably make their round very uncomfortable.
But why would they even do that?

 

[Swango1980]

The sprinters would probably make their round very uncomfortable.
But why would they even do that?

And, we are right back where we started.

Why would they do that? Because, they want an early round, and they feel they can play quickly. However, their perception of a fast pace is much more different to another players perception. So, they generally play slower than the speed merchant behind them. This speed merchant now has an even bigger entitlement of a quick round as he is in an early group. For the slower guy in front, maybe he gets even more slow because he has a few poor shots. Or maybe the quick player with him throws in a few bad shots, and so the group is slower than the groups behind.

It is just a really bad idea in so many ways.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The sprinters would probably make their round very uncomfortable.
But why would they even do that?

Maybe because that’s the time they want to play at and it’s the time that suits their needs

 

[rulie]

Good qualities are easier to destroy than bad ones, and therefore uniformity is most easily achieved by lowering all standards.
…. Bertrand Russell

 

[bobmac]

I think your suggestion, from what I seen, is just a bad idea. Fast players out first, slow players out last. How do you define a fast and slow player. What is a medium paced player? Who produces the data for each player, so that they can be suitable placed in one of these categories? What if a fast player plays slowly one week, or a slow player starts playing more quickly? How would you know they are quicker, if they are out last and stuck behind other slow groups? Do fast players have to get up at the crack of dawn all the time, and slow players have the whole day pretty much taken up doe to a late start?

I think most golfers know how long they take to play a round of golf and it's not that it will affect that many. 2 or 3 tee times at each end at the most.

Are you a fast player relative to the average golfer?

Well, I don't spend hours looking for golf balls

Maybe because that’s the time they want to play at and it’s the time that suits their needs

So everyone has to take 5 hours to keep the slow coaches happy.
The sad thing is, they'd probably be happier playing later because nobody would be dragging/pushing them round

It is just a really bad idea in so many ways.

Yeup, terrible idea.
Lets just let the slow players out first and hold up the whole field all day like they've been doing for the last 40 years.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think most golfers know how long they take to play a round of golf and it's not that it will affect that many. 2 or 3 tee times at each end at the most.

Well, I don't spend hours looking for golf balls

So everyone has to take 5 hours to keep the slow coaches happy.
The sad thing is, they'd probably be happier playing later because nobody would be dragging/pushing them round


Yeup, terrible idea.
Lets just let the slow players out first and hold up the whole field all day like they've been doing for the last 40 years.

Nope- they are informed that it’s within basic etiquette and slow play recommendations that they must keep up with the pace of play in front of them or face potential penalties

 

[bobmac]

Nope- they are informed that it’s within basic etiquette and slow play recommendations that they must keep up with the pace of play in front of them or face potential penalties

And if they don't want to play in the comp and want to bimble around in 5 hours behind the comp, would that be all right?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And if they don't want to play in the comp and want to bimble around in 5 hours behind the comp, would that be all right?

Again as long as they are not holding anyone up behind them follow basic etiquette and slow play recommendations-

People tee off all day long now - until at least 7 during the summer , so even if after the competition that doesn’t mean they can just saunter around without a care in the world if people have booked into a tee time behind them

 

[bobmac]

Again as long as they are not holding anyone up behind them follow basic etiquette and slow play recommendations-

People tee off all day long now - until at least 7 during the summer , so even if after the competition that doesn’t mean they can just saunter around without a care in the world if people have booked into a tee time behind them

I've already said...twice...the normal rules of calling people through still applies.
However, if there was only one slow group at the back with a few clear holes in front, you have a better chance of getting through them than if there were 30 groups with no gaps because the slow guys were out early.

And if I was daft enough to tee off behind any comp, I'd expect to have a 5 hour round.

 

[D-S]

And if I was daft enough to tee off behind any comp, I'd expect to have a 5 hour round.

If I happened, for whatever reason, to have to tee off behind a competition I would not expect a 5 hour round - I would expect to be called through at the first opportunity. There is absolutely no justification for having to play behind players who are taking 5 hours or more.

 

[Colin L]

I think most golfers know how long they take to play a round of golf and it's not that it will affect that many. 2 or 3 tee times at each end at the most.

Well, I don't spend hours looking for golf balls

So everyone has to take 5 hours to keep the slow coaches happy.
The sad thing is, they'd probably be happier playing later because nobody would be dragging/pushing them round


Yeup, terrible idea.
Lets just let the slow players out first and hold up the whole field all day like they've been doing for the last 40 years.

Bob, a major flaw in your idea is that many members of a club are working people and do not have the luxury of choosing what part of the day to play in: they have to fit their golf into their non-working hours.

 

[bobmac]

Bob, a major flaw in your idea is that many members of a club are working people and do not have the luxury of choosing what part of the day to play in: they have to fit their golf into their non-working hours.

Wow, I'd never thought of that.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I know some young players are slow but most of the slower players are older/seniors/ retired so all the time in the world to play but as I said before, it would only affect the slowest players in the club so 2 or 3 tee times

 

[D-S]

I assume these slow players who are forced to play at the end will be really easy to identify as the ones in their group who are slow. Also they will of course need to be happy to be paired with other known slow players and they all need to be available for the ’tortoise’ time slots in every start sheet competition that they enter.
Something suggests to me that it might be easier to get them to speed up or force them to keep on calling groups through until they can maintain a sensible pace of play - this can be achieved through targetted marshalling.