Mixed competition tees, should women move back to the yellow tees?

[HomerJSimpson]

The point about having a plate, marker or something to indicate the "tips" for the ladies tee is a good one and most of their board events should be played from that mark. Sadly I'd be surprised at my club if anything other than the club champs is actually done so. What I'd like to see but know it won't happen (cost) is a separate ladies competition tee on each hole. It doesn't always have to add more than 10 yards per hole but I know from experience just changing the angle of attack particularly on a par 3 makes it a different propostition altogether.

That way the ladies effectively get an equivalent of the mens white and yellows. Yes it would make the course longer and CSS etc would go up but with some planning it doesn't have to turn a plesant course overnight into a brutal slog but surely ladies deserve to be tested in comps in the same way as the men and not have to just bash it from the same place give a few feet either way every time

 

[Mattyboy]

I could be way off the mark, but I think Matty's point (it would certainly be mine) was that reassigning ladies par's to the yellow tees could potentially turn a par 72 course into a par 78.

I appreciate I threw in some rather general assumptions, but this is roughly it - that the ladies playing off the backs would have to play off a handicap of circa 7 shots higher. So off of the yellows it would be around 4 or 5.

I do not have a problem with any that wish to do so however.:thup:

 

[Region3]

possibly, but then again what's par got to do with mixed competitions (or handicapping) ?

I meant that as an example, a 410yd hole off the red tees is a par 5 but the same hole 40yds further back off the yellow tees is a par 4 for the men. Maybe the ladies could still play to their pars?

I could understand why some of the better lady players would want to test themselves from the yellow tees, but would they see it as a fair competition playing against the men?
They get their handicap on a 5,200yd course, and now have to play to the same handicap on a 6,300yd course.

Edit:
Par is relevant because a hole that is 350 from the red tees but 420 from the yellows should change from being a par 4 to a par 5 for ladies. That might happen on half a dozen or so holes over the 18, so either the ladies par has to change, or they get x courtesy shots for the difference, or they accept playing on an extremely un-level field.

 

[duncan mackie]

I meant that as an example, a 410yd hole off the red tees is a par 5 but the same hole 40yds further back off the yellow tees is a par 4 for the men. Maybe the ladies could still play to their pars?

I could understand why some of the better lady players would want to test themselves from the yellow tees, but would they see it as a fair competition playing against the men?
They get their handicap on a 5,200yd course, and now have to play to the same handicap on a 6,300yd course.

Edit:
Par is relevant because a hole that is 350 from the red tees but 420 from the yellows should change from being a par 4 to a par 5 for ladies. That might happen on half a dozen or so holes over the 18, so either the ladies par has to change, or they get x courtesy shots for the difference, or they accept playing on an extremely un-level field.

first things first - no one is handicapped to par, and there are no such things as courtsy shots any more.

shot adjustments are made against the SSS of the tees being played (at our course that usual means the men get one shot in mixed comps!

secondly, unless you have your yellow tees as a measured course with an SSS for ladies it can't be fair competition under handicap - the end. there is around a 4 to 5 shot handicap differential between men and ladies handicaps but, as with the underlying nature of handicapping this can vary quite a bit over the handicap range, and between courses - even more so than mens handicapping. We have the Red tees as a measured course for men and, from memory, it's an SSS 69 or 70 against it's LGU SSS of 74.

we play an event each year, the Emancipation Trophy, and the handicapping has been tweaked over the years to it's current level. The men play off the reds, the ladies the yellows. Men get 10% handicap - ladies get full.

in non competitive play many of the better ladies play of the white tees in the summer - I've yet to see many men off the reds although I have played from them quite a few times when in mixed company; keeps the game flowing.

 

[Region3]

secondly, unless you have your yellow tees as a measured course with an SSS for ladies it can't be fair competition under handicap - the end.

That part is the point I was trying to make.

Ladies off yellow tees with their own handicaps against the gents SSS = no chance.

 

[matriga]

Sorry, but bad idea to ask this question. Answer is logical...
Could also ask all the men to tee off from the back tees then...

(I'm a girl btw)

 

[dufferman]

This thread makes a very interesting read. It would seem that the biggest question for this comes down to why women only have one tee box yet men have 2.

If there were only red and white tees, I guess the argument would turn to how much the distance should be between the reds and whites??

Seems to me the question that needs to be asked is - why do men have to play off further (harder?) tees in a competition when women don't?

 

[patricks148]

This thread makes a very interesting read. It would seem that the biggest question for this comes down to why women only have one tee box yet men have 2.

If there were only red and white tees, I guess the argument would turn to how much the distance should be between the reds and whites??

Seems to me the question that needs to be asked is - why do men have to play off further (harder?) tees in a competition when women don't?

you are joking, arn't you?

 

[Birchy]

I cant understand how anybody has voted yes. Surely if the women played off the yellow tees and were handicapped to the SSS for these tees their handicaps would just be higher anyway? Which makes the move to yellow tees pointless?

 

[rosecott]

Seems to me the question that needs to be asked is - why do men have to play off further (harder?) tees in a competition when women don't?

They don't have to play off the whites. Qualifying competitions can be run from white or yellow tees (but, obviously not from both in the same competition) as long as the course has been measured and assessed for SSS for both sets of tees.

 

[dufferman]

They don't have to play off the whites. Qualifying competitions can be played from white or yellow tees as long as the course has been measured and assessed for SSS for both sets of tees.

I see. That sort of makes sense, still begs the question of why there are 2 tees for men and one for women?

you are joking, arn't you?

Nope - seriously, other than to 'save the ground' because lots more men play than women, why? If it was just for the reason of 'saving the tee box' then why make the white tees so much further back on some holes?

I'm not against it - in fact, I've never played golf with a woman so I've not even voted on this poll, let alone have an opinion - just wondered why it is!

 

[patricks148]

I see. That sort of makes sense, still begs the question of why there are 2 tees for men and one for women?



Nope - seriously, other than to 'save the ground' because lots more men play than women, why? If it was just for the reason of 'saving the tee box' then why make the white tees so much further back on some holes?

I'm not against it - in fact, I've never played golf with a woman so I've not even voted on this poll, let alone have an opinion - just wondered why it is!

Well for a start your handicap is usually worked out from the white tee's, yellow at out place are daily tee's if you don't want to play off the white and some of the senior memeber don't then you can still have a game.

Ladies have their handicap worked out from the red tee's so use those. I'm sure if clubs had more ladie members they may well have daily tee's and the red would be the medal tee.

Most golf courses are built with the medal tee in mind, when i go to a course i want to play from the medal, some will let you some won't. Saved for the members and comps, when courses are rated its from the medal tees, so we play our competition golf the way the course built for.

On average men hit the ball much further than women, just check out the ave driving stats on the ladies and mens europeans tours. i've never looked myself but i imagine they will be about 20 or 30 yard about the diff in tee distance on most holes i should think.

thats the simple explanation i think.

You are not being hard done by as your post suggests, look at it this way you are getting more course for your money.

 

[North Mimms]

You are not being hard done by as your post suggests, look at it this way you are getting more course for your money.

I look at the other way.
Someone who takes 100 shots to go round gets more golf for their money than a 76!

 

[patricks148]

I look at the other way.
Someone who takes 100 shots to go round gets more golf for their money than a 76!

yes, i feel cheated now with my 73 gross yesterday

and it was a par 72 course as well.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I cant understand how anybody has voted yes. Surely if the women played off the yellow tees and were handicapped to the SSS for these tees their handicaps would just be higher anyway? Which makes the move to yellow tees pointless?

Too true, there are a few misguided souls out there.

When my daughter was 13 she played off the same handicap as me which was four. [she did progress to +1.]
When we played together we played off the yellow tees and I would win slightly more matches than she did but it was always close.

When she progressed to Ladies national competitions the course was generally set with a mixture of mens yellow and ladies red tees. Roughly corresponded to a mens 70 par. [74 ladies]

Some of the courses she played such as Ganton, Berkshire and Gullane were pretty tough and scoring was usually over par which gave a false impression to folk who thought they played off red tees.

 

[williamalex1]

let us men submit 3 cards from red the tees for a separate mixed h/c, and we all play off the reds. sorted

 

[North Mimms]

let us men submit 3 cards from red the tees for a separate mixed h/c, and we all play off the reds. sorted

Anyone playing off red tees has to wear either a pink shirt or a skirt...

 

[Shiny]

Anyone playing off red tees has to wear either a pink shirt or a skirt...

I wear both but only in private

 

[Fader]

Anyone playing off red tees has to wear either a pink shirt or a skirt...

I've no problem wearing either of those as long as I have the right shoes.......

 

[viscount17]

this is an issue that has just arisen in our society as for the first time we have a lady playing as a guest. thanks to her and CONGU, all the men are getting an extra shot, even the guy off 28.