You were 100% right in the way you handled it. Always gotta be sure before pulling someone up about it.
Medal...I refused to sign his card.
- Thread starter Tommo21
- Start date
FaldosJumper
Challenge Tour Pro
I am... whilst I agree the rules need to be upheld this is something that wouldn't overly bother me but do appreciate it would with others, FWIW I don't mark my balls like said player
When I read this I grabbed a couple of penny coins and a ball, slid 1 penny right up to the ball and the other coin directly behind it... when I removed the penny against the ball the gap really didn't look that bad and like I read previously could it have been him looking for a slightly better surface to place his ball on uneven, winter greens?
Sorry but I just wouldn't have created an awkward situation over this... I do agree with others stating you should have questioned it earlier in the round when you saw it though instead of waiting till exchanging cards at the end.
chrisd
Major Champion
There is no penalty for accidentally moving your ball in the process of marking its position, you can I understand, flick the ball off its mark so long as its not seen as testing the putting surface. Rule 20 covers this I believe. You can't mark too far away - say 2 inches - as its deemed not to be properly marked
Foxholer
Blackballed
Must be an East Lothian phenomenon, they must get taught it at primary school
Ha. First thought that sprang into my mind.
I've seen similar happen and cause a bit of friction, but amended attitude - down South I might add.
Tommo21
Tour Winner
I am... whilst I agree the rules need to be upheld this is something that wouldn't overly bother me but do appreciate it would with others, FWIW I don't mark my balls like said player
When I read this I grabbed a couple of penny coins and a ball, slid 1 penny right up to the ball and the other coin directly behind it... when I removed the penny against the ball the gap really didn't look that bad and like I read previously could it have been him looking for a slightly better surface to place his ball on uneven, winter greens?
Sorry but I just wouldn't have created an awkward situation over this... I do agree with others stating you should have questioned it earlier in the round when you saw it though instead of waiting till exchanging cards at the end.
Holly Molly….you don’t think it would overly bother you. The guy was replacing 20mm or more further forward……..no grey area here. Go measure a one penny coin. It’s not a rule you can dismiss no matter how you think or feel. That’s the reason defaulters get away with this because it doesn’t overly bother some others. Sorry, I think that’s a shocking attitude.
While I accept you would have pulled him earlier, a little contradictory considering it wouldn’t bother you. I would have pulled him earlier. However by the time I knew for sure what he was doing I also knew he was doing it from the start, everything added up……..his round was gone.
Next time you play try watching how all your playing partners mark and replace their ball while going about your own game. You’ll find it hard to play your own game never mind watch what others are doing.
I was playing an open comp last year. I had to move my marker for my playing partner. I got my par walked to the next tee then realised I forgot to replace it. The guy I moved it for was very apologetic, but it was my fault and where I moved it to made the putt longer. I called the two shots on myself, the others never knew because they were engrossed with their own game. I shot 73 that day, should have been 71I missed the prizes by one shot.
Tommo21
Tour Winner
If this doesnt matter to anyone then you should not be playing golf IMO
![ball 1[1].jpg](https://golfmonthly-data.community.forum/attachments/4/4576-7228768643adab592b2cc3a983cc3401.jpg "ball 1[1].jpg")
![ball 2[1].jpg](https://golfmonthly-data.community.forum/attachments/4/4577-e0afcff161eab45407b6754e303c4fea.jpg "ball 2[1].jpg")
DCB
Well-known member
It's really the integrity of the game that's at question here. If a player is willing to mark his ball in such a manner, knowing it is a breach of the rules, what else might they do out there on the course.
scratch
Q-School Graduate
I still don't get this. If you had suspicions it would have been easy enough to watch him mark and replace his ball much earlier in the round. Don't understand why you left it till the 18th before saying anything.
freddielong
Tour Winner
I don't think it's the distance that he is getting it's the fact that he is doing it all the time he knows he is cheating and he is happy to do it, if he does this how can you trust him finding his ball or his good lie in the rough or him having a swing in the trees.
Cheating is cheating
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Is the correct answer!
Only 20 mm it may be and in the great scheme of things it's not a lot but where do you draw the line?
25mm
40...?
It's the same as teeing off an inch in front of the markers.....
Admittedly it's virtually impossible to replace EXACTLY on the spot but it needs to be as close as you can get it.
It's the Rules after all......
TheJezster
Tour Rookie
A thought occurred to me while looking at that photo above. Perhaps when he marks his ball he leans forward, slides the coin under the ball and picks the ball up. You dont replace the ball in the same manner, so perhaps he studies the line from behind, moves forward, lining the line of the ball up with the line he wants and places it in front of the marker. moves the ball to make sure the line is correct and then lifts the coin. Hes constantly behind the ball in this process and from slightly behind the replaced ball looks like its been placed correctly. Only if you went to the side or looked right over it would you possibly see a small gap.
So, rather than cheating, perhaps this is a plausible explanation of what happened? It could also explain why he didnt have an answer and was confused why someone accused him of cheating.
Just a thought and only one possible explanation. Is it beyond the possibility of reasonable doubt that this could be the case?
Just to be clear though, as the written word can be taken the wrong way, I am not claiming what you did was wrong or over the top, I am just looking at it from another possible angle to offer debate (like a forum should ;-) )
So, rather than cheating, perhaps this is a plausible explanation of what happened? It could also explain why he didnt have an answer and was confused why someone accused him of cheating.
Just a thought and only one possible explanation. Is it beyond the possibility of reasonable doubt that this could be the case?
Just to be clear though, as the written word can be taken the wrong way, I am not claiming what you did was wrong or over the top, I am just looking at it from another possible angle to offer debate (like a forum should ;-) )
Tommo21
Tour Winner
Wrong........I walk past and see him mark his ball, as anyone does. I think nothing of it. I go to my ball 30 feet away from him and mark mine. Do I go back and stand over him at the time he replaces it or stand linning up my own putt as overyone does..............
If you dont understand tht's fine....you need to go back and read my previous posts, like what happened at after 16th or the fact that I was doubting myself and had to be double sure. If then you don't understand then I'll understand why you dont understand and you're a better man than me....
Tommo21
Tour Winner
All very good.....and you have given me the reason why I had to make sure. He marks it...no gap, he replaces it 20mm gap. Give me a break, Ive played golf for 40 years now and I've never called this on anyone.
The brave would have pulled him as soon as they saw it...good. Others would not say anything...not good but fair enough. Others stand back and think what they would have done on this forum. I'm off the play a medal...the real winner won.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Whilst I understand the argument, one has to be careful of using this to condemn someone or justify an action someone has taken against that person. For example I admit to speeding on the motorway, but does that mean I am more likely to drink and drive? Lots of people on this board seem very intolerant of anyone not dressing in the traditional way to play golf, but does that mean they would also be intolerant of anyone based on their race, gender or sexuality?
In both cases I hope the answer is no, but I don't think it is ever so black (disgusting cheat who would likely claim he had found his lost ball in the rough whilst getting it out of his pocket) and white (never broke a rule in their life). Yes condemn the person for moving his ball 20mm, but you can't condemn them for something you assume they may do in the future, but have no evidence at all to prove it.
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Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I agree wth what you're saying but the suspicion is that they would break other rules....
If you regularly break this one and don't get caught the temptation is to move onto other things too.
Not a guarantee at all - far from it - but it's more likely......
If you regularly break this one and don't get caught the temptation is to move onto other things too.
Not a guarantee at all - far from it - but it's more likely......
Foxholer
Blackballed
That 20mm also gives ample scope to 'adjust' to work around any other imperfections that may be on the line. So it's not just the tiny distance of the 'cheat' involved.
Colin L
Tour Winner
I am... whilst I agree the rules need to be upheld this is something that wouldn't overly bother me but do appreciate it would with others, FWIW I don't mark my balls like said player
When I read this I grabbed a couple of penny coins and a ball, slid 1 penny right up to the ball and the other coin directly behind it... when I removed the penny against the ball the gap really didn't look that bad and like I read previously could it have been him looking for a slightly better surface to place his ball on uneven, winter greens?
Sorry but I just wouldn't have created an awkward situation over this... I do agree with others stating you should have questioned it earlier in the round when you saw it though instead of waiting till exchanging cards at the end.
I've taken the liberty of highlighting some interesting features in what you say. Firstly, how do you reconcile the belief that the rules have to be upheld while not being bothered by a breach of the rules? Then, when you suggest he might have been looking for a better lie for his ball, it sounds as if that is being dismissed as unimportant? (Sorry if that is a misreading.) And lastly, would you not agree that it isn't the person calling a breach of the rules that is creating an awkward situation, but the player who is in breach of them in the first place? It is certainly awkward for the player pointing out the breach, but it isn't of his making.
G1BB0
Money List Winner
I never even watch my oponent replace their ball as I am usually too busy having a talk to myself over a duffed chip/missed putt. If something is obvious then I agree call it asap although I believe Tommo did the right thing as wanted to be 100% certain as no one wants to pull up a fellow golfer without absolute 100% certainty 1st.
It may just be the way he has always marked this way and no one until now has pulled him up. So whereas it is deemed as cheating it may just be a case of habit (yes he is still in the wrong). The guy may never have done it knowing it was wrong & now its been flagged up probably won't do it again.
It may just be the way he has always marked this way and no one until now has pulled him up. So whereas it is deemed as cheating it may just be a case of habit (yes he is still in the wrong). The guy may never have done it knowing it was wrong & now its been flagged up probably won't do it again.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I suppose it's just someone's interpretation of what they view as cheating, and what they view as no great shakes. Personally, as someone who is not a member of a club and does not play in comps I can honestly say that if someone was gaining 20 mm then I would not be that bothered. As it does not matter to me, realistically it will save them 1 or 2 shots a round at most and they are only cheating themselves etc etc.
I am in no way condoning it, but some people may not be that bothered by it and as the saying goes, worse things happen at sea.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
did i read somewhere that the germans have a golf school and this must be attended before a handicap is issued. no one is taught how to mark a ball but its pretty obvious what should be done.
what foxholer says is correct. the 20mm does give scope to find a better lie. i do this sometimes during the winter if im playing by myself as putting is a complete lottery when the greens are in terrible shape. i might move the ball slightly so its not sitting in a crator or just about to roll into one on the putting line. obviously i wouldnt dream of doing this in a competiton!
what foxholer says is correct. the 20mm does give scope to find a better lie. i do this sometimes during the winter if im playing by myself as putting is a complete lottery when the greens are in terrible shape. i might move the ball slightly so its not sitting in a crator or just about to roll into one on the putting line. obviously i wouldnt dream of doing this in a competiton!
