Marking & lifting on Green

[bladeplayer]

Having a bit of a brain freeze on this , thought I knew the answer , not so sure now after a few said I was wrong .. 2 questions please guys


Matchplay

(1) Player putts up short & is now on other players line , does not mark the ball but puts putter down & moves it a putter head to one side & replaces the ball , then marks & lifts


(2) Same scenario , guy puts putter beside the ball puts down ball marker then lifts ball from original position ...


Fairly sure now I was wrong to be sure

 

[BTatHome]

Not sure I actually see a question in the post.

Neither would be recommended, but assuming the player replaced the ball in the same place to where it originally lay then I can't see why there would be any issue ... He's just adding some extra steps that could cause a discrepancy.

 

[bladeplayer]

Sorry Brian I was wondering if he incurred a Penalty in either case ..

 

[BTatHome]

I seem to remember the rules just recommending you place a marker, but it's not a rule break ... Just a lot of messing around that could be forgotten and mixed up

Just need to put it back in the same place!

 

[Colin L]

1) When the player puts his putter head to the ball, he has marked it and so he is fine to lift his ball and put it to the other side of the putter head.

2.) Again he has marked the position of his ball with his putter head. He then marks the position of the heel of the club and can from that accurately replace his ball.

In each case, provided he reverses the procedure, he will be replacing his ball accurately and all will be well.

 

[KenL]

Interesting, I thought you had to put down a marker then move the marker?

 

[bobmac]

This is another one of these 'yes you can, but.........
Why would you?
You try and mark the position of the ball by placing your putter near it, what are the chances of getting too close to the ball and accidentally moving it. Penalty?

 

[guest100718]

This is another one of these 'yes you can, but.........
Why would you?
You try and mark the position of the ball by placing your putter near it, what are the chances of getting too close to the ball and accidentally moving it. Penalty?

i thought if you accidently moved your ball during marking it wasnt a penalty.

 

[Foxholer]

This is another one of these 'yes you can, but.........
Why would you?
You try and mark the position of the ball by placing your putter near it, what are the chances of getting too close to the ball and accidentally moving it. Penalty?

Totally agree (though no Penalty, simply an opportunity for conflict). But such common sense approaches quite frequently turn into 'must do' myths! The entire existence of the thread was because there was doubt about whether there was a breach of the Rules - rather than simply a 'dangerous' practice!

 

[MashieNiblick]

This is another one of these 'yes you can, but.........
Why would you?
You try and mark the position of the ball by placing your putter near it, what are the chances of getting too close to the ball and accidentally moving it. Penalty?

Don't think so.

Rule 20-1 says

If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball.

And Decision 20-1/15 Meaning of “Directly Attributable” in Rules 20-1 and 20-3a says

Q. What is meant by the phrase “directly attributable to the specific act” in Rules 20-1 and 20-3a?

A. In Rule 20-1 the phrase means the specific act of placing a ball-marker behind the ball, placing a club to the side of the ball, or lifting the ball such that the player's hand, the placement of the ball-marker or the club, or the lifting of the ball causes the ball or the ball-marker to move.

On the more general point I have seen people mark first then measure and measure first then mark, and I have done both. Both are OK as Colin has confirmed as long as you use the same process in reverse to replace the ball. Again, in case it helps, Decision 20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball says (inter alia)

When moving a ball or ball-marker to the side to prevent it from interfering with another player's stance or stroke, the player may measure from the side of the ball or ball-marker. In order to accurately replace the ball on the spot from which it was lifted, the steps used to move the ball or ball-marker to the side should be reversed.

 

[bobmac]

Don't think so.

Rule 20-1 says

If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball.

And Decision 20-1/15 Meaning of “Directly Attributable” in Rules 20-1 and 20-3a says

Q. What is meant by the phrase “directly attributable to the specific act” in Rules 20-1 and 20-3a?

A. In Rule 20-1 the phrase means the specific act of placing a ball-marker behind the ball, placing a club to the side of the ball, or lifting the ball such that the player's hand, the placement of the ball-marker or the club, or the lifting of the ball causes the ball or the ball-marker to move.

On the more general point I have seen people mark first then measure and measure first then mark, and I have done both. Both are OK as Colin has confirmed as long as you use the same process in reverse to replace the ball. Again, in case it helps, Decision 20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball says (inter alia)

When moving a ball or ball-marker to the side to prevent it from interfering with another player's stance or stroke, the player may measure from the side of the ball or ball-marker. In order to accurately replace the ball on the spot from which it was lifted, the steps used to move the ball or ball-marker to the side should be reversed.

I know that and so do you but how many people dont know that rule. As Foxholer said, an opportunity for conflict

 

[MashieNiblick]

I know that and so do you but how many people dont that rule. As Foxholer said, an opportunity for conflict

Ha, I did wonder why you asked! I get it now..

Mind you so many people don't know so many rules that there is always an opportunity for conflict on any of them as this thread regularly shows.

Funnily enough I have never seen anyone challenged on this and I often see players mark the position of the ball with the club head and keep it place while they clean the ball. Mostly older players so maybe it was a common practice in the days before ball markers were invented.

 

[Foxholer]

...I often see players mark the position of the ball with the club head and keep it place while they clean the ball. Mostly older players so maybe it was a common practice in the days before ball markers were invented.

I'd suggest that it's more likely trying to avoid bending over more than they really have to!

 

[bladeplayer]

Hi Guys ,

Many thanks for the answers & clarification , i thought i was imagining things for a bit , if enough people tell u your wrong you start to believe them ..

 

[ManinBlack]

Interesting, I thought you had to put down a marker then move the marker?

The rule (20_1) says "The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball marker........."

The word "should" means it's not mandatory & therefore not the only acceptable means of marking a ball. Provided the ball is marked in such a way that it can be replaced in the same place that's OK.

In fact, it's virtually impossible to replace a ball in exactly the same place, i. e. within the nearest micron, so materiality must come into it. Where no advantage is gained a ball replaced as near as possible to its original position, however marked, should be fine.

 

[guest100718]

I know that and so do you but how many people dont know that rule. As Foxholer said, an opportunity for conflict

You should take it as on opportunity to put an end to a myth, not continue it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This sort of thread is always good for reinforcing what you know to be the case as it specified the why - and useful for debunking the myths when challenged.

Good one :thup:

 

[bobmac]

You should take it as on opportunity to put an end to a myth, not continue it.

I thought I had just done that.

In post no. 8 you said

i thought if you accidently moved your ball during marking it wasnt a penalty.

Since then, Mashie quoted the rule so now you and any others who were unsure, now know the correct ruling.

 

[guest100718]

This is another one of these 'yes you can, but.........
Why would you?
You try and mark the position of the ball by placing your putter near it, what are the chances of getting too close to the ball and accidentally moving it. Penalty?

You can because its OK to do so. When you see someone do this, don't say anything. If questioned about it, say it perfectly acceptable.

Don' say:

yes you can, but.........
Why would you?

//////

 

[guest100718]

I thought I had just done that.

In post no. 8 you said


Since then, Mashie quoted the rule so now you and any others who were unsure, now know the correct ruling.

you are getting confused.