Madeleine McCann

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FairwayDodger said:
You keep coming back to this point and it baffles me. I didn't see the programme last night but did hear an interview with Kate McCann on the radio this morning, which I assumed was an excerpt from the programme. In it she absolutely admitted that they'd been wrong to leave her and that she had spent years "persecuting" (her exact word, I remember it as it seemed a strange choice) herself for it.
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She could have said "beating themselves up" over it - but that would sound bit 'flippant' to some of a certain mindset
 
chrisd said:
Ok - so, given that everyone agrees that the McCanns and their friends were all wrong in their actions that, and other evenings, in leaving their children whilst they dined it begs the question. What action do you think should be taken against them?
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Nothing - they were mistaken but their mistake is understandable and would in 99.9999% of situations not have led to any problem. Just on that they could not possibly have foreseen what occurred.
 
I don't keep up with the news about the case. My take is, it was a fundamental bad decision by the parents. From what i know of the case, it sounds very organised, the kidnapper knew their routine and she was "stolen to order" IMHO and is now living a new life having no clue who she actually is.

that's my theory.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Conjectural whatiffery - and completely besides the actual point of the disappearance of a little girl.
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Whatiffery aside, is it beside the point though?
In order for most crimes to be committed the opportunity has to be there. In this case, all the "known facts" (although facts seems to be stretching it) seem to indicate that the behaviour of the families (not just the McCann family) created the opportunity for whatever happened, TO HAPPEN.

SLH, you seem to be on a crusade of innocence on this thread but the fact remains that you, nor anyone on this forum, knows what happened. We don't even know if this IS an abduction case.
So, in a way, what you are doing is making assumptions just like the ones you are decrying as doing it.

The point should never be lost that something has happened to a young child but until we find out what that something ACTUALLY is, then no one can say they are devoid of any responsibility or not.
In my view, they created the opportunity, willfully or not by acting in a manner that I see as irresponsible. Many other see it that way too, it does not mean that they are wrong as we simply do not know.

I would also add that the examples of people letting kids get out of their sight and "we all do it" miss one point, where this happens (in the supermarche for example) we generally minimise the possibility of something going wrong by going looking for them as soon as we realise they are no longer in view. This is not the impression that the behaviour of the families gives in my opinion.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Nothing - they were mistaken but their mistake is understandable and would in 99.9999% of situations not have led to any problem. Just on that they could not possibly have foreseen what occurred.
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Unbelievable!

No they could not, nor anyone can foresee anything that may or may not happen, but, we do things to remove the opportunities so those people whom live around us can't take advantage of those situations, as such we put in place adequate protection by putting the welfare of our children first, the McCanns failed not once, but on multiple times allowing the opportunity to be gained.

They were negligent in their personal actions which has led to the disappearance of Maddie and should be held accountable, IMO.
 
Rooter said:
I don't keep up with the news about the case. My take is, it was a fundamental bad decision by the parents. From what i know of the case, it sounds very organised, the kidnapper knew their routine and she was "stolen to order" IMHO and is now living a new life having no clue who she actually is.

that's my theory.
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I concur - whether she's living the life of a prince or a pauper, I think she's living a life in another country speaking another language and probably none the wiser to the life she once had.

When I lived at my parents, we were sitting watching TV one evening and heard a child's voice out on the street. We lived in a cul-de-sac and didin't get much passers by.

The voice was of a child. I kid you not, he lived 4 doors down and had woken after a nightmare and couldn't find his Daddy. So he simply let himself out the house to find him.

The father was next door having a glass of wine with the neighbor. After we started knocking on doors an embarrassed father tried to laugh it off and took the kid (who was probably 5 years old) back in the house.

We all thought how truly irresponsible that man was. Leaving a kid alone like that. Leaving the front door unlocked. What could have happened?

This all took place well after the McCann disappearance. I'm not a father but I'd never leave a kid alone in a house or anywhere else, for whatever reason. Surely, that is just common sense?
 
GreiginFife said:
Whatiffery aside, is it beside the point though?
In order for most crimes to be committed the opportunity has to be there. In this case, all the "known facts" (although facts seems to be stretching it) seem to indicate that the behaviour of the families (not just the McCann family) created the opportunity for whatever happened, TO HAPPEN
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Yes - but there has also to be context, probability and intent taken into account

SLH, you seem to be on a crusade of innocence on this thread but the fact remains that you, nor anyone on this forum, knows what happened. We don't even know if this IS an abduction case.
So, in a way, what you are doing is making assumptions just like the ones you are decrying as doing it.
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Absolutely I am the McCanns are indeed completely innocent in respect of the disappearance of their child - and that will not change unless evidence or admission to the contrary is available. So yes I am making very important assumption - they are innocent until proven guilty.

The point should never be lost that something has happened to a young child but until we find out what that something ACTUALLY is, then no one can say they are devoid of any responsibility or not.
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Yes you can - they are currently completely innocent in respect of the disappearance of their child

In my view, they created the opportunity, willfully or not by acting in a manner that I see as irresponsible. Many other see it that way too, it does not mean that they are wrong as we simply do not know.

I would also add that the examples of people letting kids get out of their sight and "we all do it" miss one point, where this happens (in the supermarche for example) we generally minimise the possibility of something going wrong by going looking for them as soon as we realise they are no longer in view. This is not the impression that the behaviour of the families gives in my opinion.
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Oh well - they created the opportunity implies that they suspected that someone might be about to abduct their child. And in respect of your supermarket comparison - only really valid as a criticism of the McCanns if they did nothing for sometime after discovering that their child was missing.

Still seems very unfortunate that so many seem to want to get the McCanns for something, even if they can't be got for direct involvement in the disappearanceof their child - which is frankly very sad and rather sick.
 
Fish said:
Unbelievable!

No they could not, nor anyone can foresee anything that may or may not happen, but, we do things to remove the opportunities so those people whom live around us can't take advantage of those situations, as such we put in place adequate protection by putting the welfare of our children first, the McCanns failed not once, but on multiple times allowing the opportunity to be gained.

They were negligent in their personal actions which has led to the disappearance of Maddie and should be held accountable, IMO.
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Not unbelieveable as I believe it. Their actions did not lead to the disappearance of their child. By their actions they may not have prevented the unforeseen happening - and that is as far as I will go on that.
 
FairwayDodger said:
Where does this myth come from?
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Karen, I believe that a statement that was used on last nights programme was "we are not the ones that have done anything wrong" or words similar.
I know that I have read several similar quotes (albeit in newspapers/websites) that are attributed, strangely consistently, to Mrs McCann, not many statements or such coming from Mr McCann though that I have seen (for those that want to find conjecture in that, please do not look, it is a statement of opinion based purely on observations made personally).
 
Robobum said:
It's in the BBC report today FD.

Mrs McCann said: "We're not the ones that have done something wrong here. It's the person who's gone into that apartment and taken a little girl away from her family."
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Haven't seen that then but my guess is that context is everything. In the interview I heard she quite clearly stated that they were wrong to leave her.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Yes - but there has also to be context, probability and intent taken into account



Absolutely I am the McCanns are indeed completely innocent in respect of the disappearance of their child - and that will not change unless evidence or admission to the contrary is available. So yes I am making very important assumption - they are innocent until proven guilty.



Yes you can - they are currently completely innocent in respect of the disappearance of their child



Oh well - they created the opportunity implies that they suspected that someone might be about to abduct their child. And in respect of your supermarket comparison - only really valid as a criticism of the McCanns if they did nothing for sometime after discovering that their child was missing.

Still seems very unfortunate that so many seem to want to get the McCanns for something, even if they can't be got for direct involvement in the disappearanceof their child - which is frankly very sad and rather sick.
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I am not out to get anyone, in any shape or form. And being responsible does not mean you are guilty. You can be responsible while being innocent so please spare me that one.
No, they did not suspect that someone may abduct their child, in the same way that the moron that overtakes on a dangerous road does not assume that there is oncoming traffic, but by taking actions they created the opportunity for it to happen without reasonable mitigation.

Anyhow, I will leave it at that, you are right and I am wrong. But please take in to account that I am not trying yo villify anyone, just merely point out that your actions can make you responsible without necissarily being guilty of a crime.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Not unbelieveable as I believe it. Their actions did not lead to the disappearance of their child. By their actions they may not have prevented the unforeseen happening - and that is as far as I will go on that.
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Rubbish, of course their actions led to the abduction, if that is still what we all believe. If they had only gone to the Tappas once, it wouldn't happened, if one person in the group took a rota and nightly watched the children, it wouldn't have happened.

Repetitive, selfish and personal behaviour led to the abduction by leaving 3 children under the age of 4 alone.
 
Of course she has stated her regrets for leaving her, but it probably doesn't help finding Maddy for that aspect to become the dominant theme of public utterances. I am certain that privately the McCanns have bitterly regretted that every day since.

Nor does the issue of her interview mean much. The Portuguese legal system is different from the British one, and it is probably standard practice to say little in a formal interview when still an arguido.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Nothing - they were mistaken but their mistake is understandable and would in 99.9999% of situations not have led to any problem. Just on that they could not possibly have foreseen what occurred.
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Understandable ?! You can understand why they left their kids alone whilst they went off to eat elsewhere

Please tell me your reasons for understanding their actions that night

Do you have kids ? Would you have done the same as them
 
Why don't we start a witch hunt,? what about James Bulgers mum for not looking out for him at that shopping centre that day. Was she as negligent as the McCanns ?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing , clearly the McCanns thought that it would be ok, it wasn't . they know that now
Continued persecution of these people isn't going to change anything ,is it helping in the search?
Answer= NO
so how about we stop
 
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