LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

Isn’t that what LIV tried to do to the PGA Tour?

No, and for the umpteenth, but undoubtedly not the last time.... The reason LIV players do not play PGAT events is because they were banned by the PGAT.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

No, and for the umpteenth, but undoubtedly not the last time.... The reason LIV players do not play PGAT events is because they were banned by the PGAT.

But they did try and take the PGA players by paying them millions to walk away from
PGAT. But it didn't ultimately work and very few top players went over. They didn’t leave crumbs but they did try and poach the top talent. To try and claim otherwise is just false.

Anyway the story of PIF removing funding is everywhere including the FT which is a highly trusted source. It’s absolutely the beginning of the end as to run the events and keep the prize funds as they are needs a ridiculous amount of investment which I can’t see Happening.

 

[Swango1980]

But they did try and take the PGA players by paying them millions to walk away from
PGAT. But it didn't ultimately work and very few top players went over. They didn’t leave crumbs but they did try and loach the top talent. To try and claim otherwise is just false.

Anyway the story of PIF removing funding is everywhere including the FT which is a highly trusted source. It’s absolutely the beginning of the end as to run the events and keep the prize funds as they are needs a ridiculous amount of investment which I can’t see Happening.

The LIV players didn't do it for the money. They did it so they could have more family time, and loved the Team format. So undoubtedly LIV will continue strongly, as the players will continue to support it, even if the prize money is less than the PGAT...

 

[Mel Smooth]

But they did try and take the PGA players by paying them millions to walk away from
PGAT. But it didn't ultimately work and very few top players went over. They didn’t leave crumbs but they did try and loach the top talent. To try and claim otherwise is just false.

Anyway the story of PIF removing funding is everywhere including the FT which is a highly trusted source. It’s absolutely the beginning of the end as to run the events and keep the prize funds as they are needs a ridiculous amount of investment which I can’t see Happening.

If the PGAT hadn't blackballed the players do you honestly think LIV would have offered so much money to them - they wouldn't have needed to if Jay Monahan had taken the opportunity to work LIV into the existing schedule. He didn't, he chose a hostile defence of his tour, and here we are.

LIV will change dramatically over the next few years, we're seeing it already, but, I'll stand by my view that the game deserves more than what the PGAT see as a suitable presentation of mens professional golf, and ultimately it will never regain the players, prestige, and monopoly that it once had. Those days are gone.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

If the PGAT hadn't blackballed the players do you honestly think LIV would have offered so much money to them - they wouldn't have needed to if Jay Monahan had taken the opportunity to work LIV into the existing schedule. He didn't, he chose a hostile defence of his tour, and here we are.

LIV will change dramatically over the next few years, we're seeing it already, but, I'll stand by my view that the game deserves more than what the PGAT see as a suitable presentation of mens professional golf, and ultimately it will never regain the players, prestige, and monopoly that it once had. Those days are gone.

LIV will dissolve very soon unless it finds someone to bankroll them very quickly

LIV were the disrupter within Tour golf , players only went to LIV based on the money they were offered , no other reason , they were given life changing sums of money

And that money is about to run out

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

If the PGAT hadn't blackballed the players do you honestly think LIV would have offered so much money to them - they wouldn't have needed to if Jay Monahan had taken the opportunity to work LIV into the existing schedule. He didn't, he chose a hostile defence of his tour, and here we are.

LIV will change dramatically over the next few years, we're seeing it already, but, I'll stand by my view that the game deserves more than what the PGAT see as a suitable presentation of mens professional golf, and ultimately it will never regain the players, prestige, and monopoly that it once had. Those days are gone.

Of course he chose a hostile defence of his tour, that’s literally what his job was to protect his tour. No different from any CEO protecting their company to assume he’d roll over let players go is naive at best.

Nobody has said golf doesn’t deserve more than the PGAT offering, but LIV is not going to be it. To think they’ll remain in the Golf Space when they lose money hand over fist and contract golf just doesn’t work and doesn’t give the competitive edge other tours do. Claiming “those days are gone” is also naive in the current climate and LIV is not sustainable proven by PIF walking away. The changes being made will not equate the same financial investment and return as nobody is going invest in something not capable of returning on that and just throwing money away.

I enjoy watching the odd LiV event but it’s just not the future and disruptor it was designed to be.

 

[Mel Smooth]

LIV will dissolve very soon unless it finds someone to bankroll them very quickly

LIV were the disrupter within Tour golf , players only went to LIV based on the money they were offered , no other reason , they were given life changing sums of money

And that money is about to run out

All golf tours have the same predicament Phil.

I'd say fair play to those players that took the life changing money - because that window of opportunity and investment into the game from a sovereign wealth fund, that could have been transformational to the game, has been removed from the table.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

All golf tours have the same predicament Phil.

I'd say fair play to those players that took the life changing money - because that window of opportunity and investment into the game from a sovereign wealth fund, that could have been transformational to the game, has been removed from the table.

The only thing that sovereign wealth did was make a number of rich golfers even richer - of the £5bn thrown at the league most of it went to players , not investing in the sport

Other tours have survived and will continue to do so with the need of a single sovereign wealth backer

LIV thought ( well Norman ) they could just buy a main stream tour but it was never going to happen

 

[BubbaP]

Here's a different angle on the speculation - if somehow they did manage to carry on without PIF (don't debate it, just go with it for a moment).

There are a number of people, maybe even a few on here, who just wouldn't/couldn't move past the Saudi piece (& I can understand that POV). Plenty on wider social media, of the view 'won't ever watch with Saudi behind it'.
If that goes away, do you think some of those might be more open minded? Or would it be forever tainted?
Someone might answer first hand perhaps.

PS, no need to go over other reasons might not watch - have been round that on here ad infinitum!

 

[IanM]

All golf tours have the same predicament Phil.

I'd say fair play to those players that took the life changing money - because that window of opportunity and investment into the game from a sovereign wealth fund, that could have been transformational to the game, has been removed from the table.

Sorry, that's hilarious. This was always a power and influence game that thankfully now looks like disappearing up its own arse.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Sorry, that's hilarious. This was always a power and influence game that thankfully now looks like disappearing up its own arse.

Well, the whole game of mens pro golf is a power and influence game. If the Saudis have lost and Tiger and the PGAT have won, what do you think the future looks like?

 

[BubbaP]

I don’t see it, the only big names are the ones @Arthur Wedge mentioned and of those only Rahm and BDC meet the criteria as major winners in the last 5 years to allow qualification and even then it would be under a similar deal to Brooks.

The rest like Hatton that still have DPWT membership would go there, anyone else would need to qualify. It’s going to be messy if and when it all ends.

To an extent the precedents and pathways are already there, maybe the messy part would be the increased numbers.
Last week on DPWT believe 1st, 2nd & 4th had some previous involvement with LIV. This week 3 of the top 5 ranked are currently involved with LIV.
The Koepka fudge did cloud things, but we know what Reed is doing. Will see what route Na takes. To some extent would depend on what individuals wish to pursue. Some have come from Asian & Japan tours. Stenson & P Perez are also back playing

 

[IanM]

Well, the whole game of mens pro golf is a power and influence game. If the Saudis have lost and Tiger and the PGAT have won, what do you think the future looks like?

Make your mind up. I thought you said LIV was an opportunity etc etc etc.

Future looks far more promising without the current division and distraction.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Make your mind up. I thought you said LIV was an opportunity etc etc etc.

Future looks far more promising without the current division and distraction.

Does it?

Even though there'll be less money coming in, lets not forget the Saudis are huge backers of the womens game as well.

And you think that the guys that were on LIV won't be given a cross to bear by the golf media - cos that's not happening right now is it?

If you think it's messy now, then you wont like what will be happening as the media companies that have been living off LIV clickbait content when LIV have been the 'opposition', have to turn on the returning players to keep driving that traffic through their media companies.

 

[Swango1980]

Well, the whole game of mens pro golf is a power and influence game. If the Saudis have lost and Tiger and the PGAT have won, what do you think the future looks like?

The future looks miles better. Personally, my favourite period in professional golf was just pre LIV, when all the top players played on the same Tour.

LIV, for me, destroyed that and made pro golf much worse.

I honestly wouldnt mind if the likes of Bryson, Rahm, Smith, etc fade into nothing as I see them as mercenaries. But regardless of that, if the top players end up on same tour, good for me.

Don't really care who is in charge of the tour. Although from a selfish point of view, having most events in USA is good, because the coverage is on in the evenings and I can therefore watch it

 

[IanM]

Does it?

Even though there'll be less money coming in, lets not forget the Saudis are huge backers of the womens game as well.

And you think that the guys that were on LIV won't be given a cross to bear by the golf media - cos that's not happening right now is it?

If you think it's messy now, then you wont like what will be happening as the media companies that have been living off LIV clickbait content when LIV have been the 'opposition', have to turn on the returning players to keep driving that traffic through their media companies.

The market will find it's level... and I'm sure I'll survive

 

[Mel Smooth]

The future looks miles better. Personally, my favourite period in professional golf was just pre LIV, when all the top players played on the same Tour.

LIV, for me, destroyed that and made pro golf much worse.

I honestly wouldnt mind if the likes of Bryson, Rahm, Smith, etc fade into nothing as I see them as mercenaries. But regardless of that, if the top players end up on same tour, good for me.

Don't really care who is in charge of the tour. Although from a selfish point of view, having most events in USA is good, because the coverage is on in the evenings and I can therefore watch it

Ah right, so watching a bit of golf on a Sunday night is a big factor.

What if you live 3 hours +GMT and that's not really feasible? - Sod em?

And which PGAT events this year have had all the best players play together? The answer is The Players and none of the others. What you think you lost and what you actually lost aren't the same thing.

 

[Mel Smooth]

The market will find it's level... and I'm sure I'll survive

You will - you'll be fine, you'll be able to hope Rahm, Bryson and Cam Smith have terrible weekends and fade into nothing a bit like Swango is already looking forward to. If LIV disappears, well it won't will it..

 

[IanM]

Meanwhile Liv has even fewer top players and virtually no TV audience.

For this reason the backers got bored and pulled out. Aggro in the Middle East being a convenient excuse.

Frankly, I don't care if liv continues. But I getting really really bored of the pretence that it was about enhancing the game.

It also appears that an event needs to be "postponed" because no one told them it gets hot in the summer. Comical.

 

[IanM]

You will - you'll be fine, you'll be able to hope Rahm, Bryson and Cam Smith have terrible weekends and fade into nothing a bit like Swango is already looking forward to. If LIV disappears, well it won't will it..

You keep watching it, they need you far more than the proper golf needs Swango!

If those three turn up and play well, good luck to them.