LIV Golf

[fenwayrich]

In response to OKGC, perhaps other teams will be considering a name change. Bang Average GC, Not Bad GC, Fairly Good GC, Pretty Normal GC Half Decent GC spring to mind?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

This team stuff is why I find LIV hard to follow.
I have no idea who those teams are or who plays for which team.
The odd occasion I have put it on telly they have the teams and there points on the screen but it means nothing to me.

Has the team thing added to it for the LIV fans out there or would they be better using the original format that we are used to?

Exactly this for me as well, I quite enjoy watching LIV as I just like watching good golf in general and I get to see course that aren’t played on other tours. But soon as the team bit comes on my brain switches off, I just don’t care about team golf. I like the RC as the us giants them mentality off Europe v US and I have a buy as a European golfing fan. But LIV and other team golf imo is meaningless with no real ties to anything, I’d guess as a Brit I should punt for Majestics but if feels to contrived and I just don’t buy into the players or care

They have, which is why Smash have changed to OKGC

It makes sense , but is it to little to late and does that the detract from the other states. I genuinely don’t know just speculating and lowers their recruitment pool. Or will they look to recruit AMs out of OKC colleges to try and star relevant

For those who like speculating about these things, there are many current players with strong links to Oklahoma...

On LIV:

• Talor Gooch
• Charles Howell III
• Peter Uihlein
• Matt Wolff
• Abe Ancer
• Anthony Kim

Outside LIV:

• Viktor Hovland
• Wyndham Clark
• Chris Gotterup
• Rickie Fowler
• Max McGreevy
• Austin Eckroat
• Sam Stevens
• Alex Norén
• Eugenio Chacarra
• Rasmus Neergaard-Petersen
• Ethan Fang

That’s actually quite an interesting and cool fact , the big but though is of those players outside of LIV who are they going to look to entice as I don’t see any of those names going over.

 

[wjemather]

That’s actually quite an interesting and cool fact , the big but though is of those players outside of LIV who are they going to look to entice as I don’t see any of those names going over.

Ethan Fang may be the most interesting one, but there's a few who have been linked previously (although they've seemingly missed the boat as far as big signing on fees go, so would be very unlikely).

 

[Mel Smooth]

Exactly this for me as well, I quite enjoy watching LIV as I just like watching good golf in general and I get to see course that aren’t played on other tours. But soon as the team bit comes on my brain switches off, I just don’t care about team golf. I like the RC as the us giants them mentality off Europe v US and I have a buy as a European golfing fan. But LIV and other team golf imo is meaningless with no real ties to anything, I’d guess as a Brit I should punt for Majestics but if feels to contrived and I just don’t buy into the players or care

It makes sense , but is it to little to late and does that the detract from the other states. I genuinely don’t know just speculating and lowers their recruitment pool. Or will they look to recruit AMs out of OKC colleges to try and star relevant

That’s actually quite an interesting and cool fact , the big but though is of those players outside of LIV who are they going to look to entice as I don’t see any of those names going over.

O Neill said they weren't paying any more big signing fees and that they would target young guys coming through - so given the solid record of golfers that Oklahoma has produced then I'd say it adds up.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

O Neill said they weren't paying any more big signing fees and that they would target young guys coming through - so given the solid record of golfers that Oklahoma has produced then I'd say it adds up.

Guess that makes sense then, try and tie into a few States that have successful golf programs and try and get the guys straight out of college to create the next generation in order to keep costs down and maybe help keep it running. Does raise the question would LIv then become a feeder tour to the bigger boys in the long run.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Exactly this for me as well, I quite enjoy watching LIV as I just like watching good golf in general and I get to see course that aren’t played on other tours. But soon as the team bit comes on my brain switches off, I just don’t care about team golf. I like the RC as the us giants them mentality off Europe v US and I have a buy as a European golfing fan. But LIV and other team golf imo is meaningless with no real ties to anything, I’d guess as a Brit I should punt for Majestics but if feels to contrived and I just don’t buy into the players or care

It makes sense , but is it to little to late and does that the detract from the other states. I genuinely don’t know just speculating and lowers their recruitment pool. Or will they look to recruit AMs out of OKC colleges to try and star relevant

That’s actually quite an interesting and cool fact , the big but though is of those players outside of LIV who are they going to look to entice as I don’t see any of those names going over.

With the uncertainty around the funding it’s going to be very hard to entice anyone across - they still have current players contracts to sort out as well

 

[Mel Smooth]

Guess that makes sense then, try and tie into a few States that have successful golf programs and try and get the guys straight out of college to create the next generation in order to keep costs down and maybe help keep it running. Does raise the question would LIv then become a feeder tour to the bigger boys in the long run.

That would depend on whether the bigger boys let them play I guess - they might well be. Make no mistake, now that the PGAT has to deliver profits to it's owners, if there's value in letting LIV players transition over to the PGAT, then it will happen - the precedent was set with Koepka.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

With the uncertainty around the funding it’s going to be very hard to entice anyone across - they still have current players contracts to sort out as well

That’s kind of my point to Mel.. seems to me at least the only viable way of getting players. Rebrand, lure college golfers from States tied to the teams and become essentially a feeder tour, whereby players can graduate depending performance or ranking to one of the other tours. If DPWT are smart they could market themselves as taking on players from LiV rankings each year, players could then as now qualify for PGAT from DPWT and it fully closes the loop on golfing development at tour level and everyone remains relevant in some guise.

 

[D-S]

For those who like speculating about these things, there are many current players with strong links to Oklahoma...

On LIV:

• Talor Gooch
• Charles Howell III
• Peter Uihlein
• Matt Wolff
• Abe Ancer
• Anthony Kim

Outside LIV:

• Viktor Hovland
• Wyndham Clark
• Chris Gotterup
• Rickie Fowler
• Max McGreevy
• Austin Eckroat
• Sam Stevens
• Alex Norén
• Eugenio Chacarra
• Rasmus Neergaard-Petersen
• Ethan Fang

Wouldn’t the important factor be how many fans would start rooting for a State based team?
Whether there are 4, 10 or 30 players available with links is not the driving factor behind the amount of people who might have engagement, loyalty and following with a State team.
To create a supporter base you need a lot of potential supporters not necessarily players.
I am not sure that Oklahoma has a particularly high % of possible and current golf fans who have any sort of affiliations to it. It has a population of just over 4 million and is the 28th most populous state in the US.

 

[The Squirrel]

That’s kind of my point to Mel.. seems to me at least the only viable way of getting players. Rebrand, lure college golfers from States tied to the teams and become essentially a feeder tour, whereby players can graduate depending performance or ranking to one of the other tours. If DPWT are smart they could market themselves as taking on players from LiV rankings each year, players could then as now qualify for PGAT from DPWT and it fully closes the loop on golfing development at tour level and everyone remains relevant in some guise.

Does the economics work as a standalone global (i.e. far mroe expensive than regional and no support from a parent tour) feeder tour ever work though, when your player pool is 2 tiers away from the PGAT, so it's roughly equivalent to the current HotelPlanner Tour? With nobody that you've ever heard of playing, who's tuning in or turning up to watch that other than a ridiculously tiny market of ultra hardcore golf nerds?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Does the economics work as a standalone global (i.e. far mroe expensive than regional and no support from a parent tour) feeder tour ever work though, when your player pool is 2 tiers away from the PGAT, so it's roughly equivalent to the current HotelPlanner Tour? With nobody that you've ever heard of playing, who's tuning in or turning up to watch that other than a ridiculously tiny market of ultra hardcore golf nerds?

I genuinely don’t have the answers to that! But I can see the logic in it if they’re going to rename teams based on States etc, would require a lot of marketing and some backing from somewhere kind of Akin to Korn Ferry but it would be a much lower tier. They’d also lose all the current stars as would they be happy knowing they’ve jumps from bigger tours to essentially a 3rd tier.

I’m not convinced of its longevity either way now, all the changes seem to be inline with reducing funds and lowering the level but who knows.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

That’s kind of my point to Mel.. seems to me at least the only viable way of getting players. Rebrand, lure college golfers from States tied to the teams and become essentially a feeder tour, whereby players can graduate depending performance or ranking to one of the other tours. If DPWT are smart they could market themselves as taking on players from LiV rankings each year, players could then as now qualify for PGAT from DPWT and it fully closes the loop on golfing development at tour level and everyone remains relevant in some guise.

If there is no PIF funding then there needs to be a huge shift in how they work

The world tour idea is a good idea and the DPT have worked out a way with co sanctions with other governing bodies

But unfortunately top players won’t buy into it with being compensated

Can see LIV being swallowed up by DPtour

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

If there is no PIF funding then there needs to be a huge shift in how they work

The world tour idea is a good idea and the DPT have worked out a way with co sanctions with other governing bodies

But unfortunately top players won’t buy into it with being compensated

Can see LIV being swallowed up by DPtour

I think it’s clear there isn’t going to be PIF funding. Eddie Pep was in the radio this morning discussing it and a well balanced view to. I don’t know my true it is but he claimed having spoken to some LIV guys that it costs in the region of £60m per event to host due to prize funds, wages, set up, travel costs etc. if that’s the case eventually something had to give.

Problem they have is they tried to make golf a contract sport and it’s just not working as a whole and now PIF are bored of their toy and not wanting the money out. I’ll admit when I am wrong I thought it was here to stay but c’est la vie!

I think if DPWT play it right they can and should mop it up, getting events like the South African and Adelaide ones would do them no harm at all.

 

[D-S]

I think if DPWT play it right they can and should mop it up, getting events like the South African and Adelaide ones would do them no harm at all.

LIV proved that there was a market for these star events in Australia and South Africa but at what cost?
However if the staging, off course entertainment, massively increased prize fund and the appearance fees of star golfers are not offset by huge new sponsorship then gate receipts are not going to make it anything but a huge loss maker for them. These are markets that the DPWT, with existing co sanctioned events, already serve with 6 events.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I think it’s clear there isn’t going to be PIF funding. Eddie Pep was in the radio this morning discussing it and a well balanced view to. I don’t know my true it is but he claimed having spoken to some LIV guys that it costs in the region of £60m per event to host due to prize funds, wages, set up, travel costs etc. if that’s the case eventually something had to give.

Problem they have is they tried to make golf a contract sport and it’s just not working as a whole and now PIF are bored of their toy and not wanting the money out. I’ll admit when I am wrong I thought it was here to stay but c’est la vie!

I think if DPWT play it right they can and should mop it up, getting events like the South African and Adelaide ones would do them no harm at all.

Think it’s more than £60mil - upwards seen close to £100mil per event , last two season PIF have put in £1bn to keep it going , they have got some revenue going but still need prob around £800mil a year

For me the WGCs should have been expanded out to include some major opens but unfortunately it’s going to go back to PGAT just dominating even more

 

[Redtraveller]

In response to OKGC, perhaps other teams will be considering a name change. Bang Average GC, Not Bad GC, Fairly Good GC, Pretty Normal GC Half Decent GC spring to mind?

You’ve missed off ‘Has Beens GC’

 

[Mel Smooth]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2046964184391319801