wjemather
Well-known member
It's reasonable to think that someone who wants the best players playing together would play in every WGC/elevated/signature event they could.
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Why would the likes of Burmiesiter etc do any better ?
He hasn’t managed to qualify for a single Masters and has one half decent finish in majors
Ancer isn’t that much better
Garcia was supposed to be the form player on LIV and he missed the cut
What someone is doing on LIV or other tours doesn’t automatically suggest they will do well in a major
Swango1980
Well-known member
Are we saying that pre LIV, 74% of future LIV players made the cut.
Now, 50% of LIV players made the cut.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
I agree but you can never say never.
Career grand slam ticked off, he’ll soon be entering the twilight of his career despite what brown nose Mcginley says. No one knows what’s going on between his ears so maybe one day if a PGA-LIV deal doesn’t materialise
Personally I just cannot see it but we aren’t in Rory’s shoes.
He is only 35 ? At least another 15 years at the top
I don’t think anyone would ever see Rory on LIV - he has been very clear on that
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
I’m sure Rory will play the events that suit his schedule to look to see what will work to give him the best chance of winning majors
wjemather
Well-known member
He may have a green jacket but García has rarely performed well at Augusta, even in his prime, missing the cut more often than he's finished in the top-30. Another MC is really no surprise.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
You can believe whatever you want, but if you add another 6 of the best players on LIV into this years Masters I guarantee the top 20 looks a little different.
Of course you want to create a drama about LIV players underperforming but the positions are par for the course.
Rahm was a disappointment, Garcia will probably feel like he underperformed, Cam Smith has been struggling anyway, and had a newborn enter the family a few weeks back…
The fewer LIV player’s that compete in Majors the easier it is to focus on the ones that don’t fare so well.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Every year there is talk from LIV fans that x player should be in the major because of x performance on LIV
How many of them when they have played in the major have actually performed
I’m not talking about the likes of Koepka and BDC who have proven themselves in majors but the likes of Gooch and Niemann ?
Swango1980
Well-known member
I'm just looking at the same statistics that pro LIV people are trying to use to show some sort of positive for LIV.
I've no doubt if a few more LIV guys played some might make the cut, and some might not make the cut. Just like if some other non LIV golfers who didn't play this week may or may not have made the cut had they played. I'm not overly bothered about individuals making the cut or not, everyone can have good and bad weeks. I just thought it was pretty poor that only 50% of all the LIV guys that played were able to make the cut. Especially in a field that had amateurs and golfers like Langer, Olazabal, Cabrera and Couples, who you would expect to miss the cut.
Then again, perhaps many of the LIV players that played this Masters are not the world class golfers that we were lead to believe, and that LIV has many more even better golfers who simply were unable to play in this Masters. Perhaps the likes of Westwood, Poulter, Kaymer and Kim is where the real quality lies. I don't know, as I've not watched it, so I'll be open minded.
wjemather
Well-known member
He has three top-20 finishes in majors, two of them last year.
Like Niemann, he was deserving of an invitation to the Masters last year after winning twice in SAf but didn't get one.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
so he didn’t finish in any positions that gain him entry again to the next year
No top 5 or top 10 positions
That’s not exactly screaming in need to be in the majors
And with all the talk about Niemann still no top 10 in a major
What makes someone “deserving” of an invitation
In a smaller, closed-shop environment, it actually becomes somewhat easier to measure ‘form’ (in horse racing terms).
Unfortunately for Liv stans, the ‘form’ of their best in major championships undermines the argument that more players deserve spots in majors.
Take the 3 individual championship winners, and the player with the most wins total and you get the most successful 4 playing on Liv.
DJ, Gooch, Rahm, Niemann
DJ - 11 majors, 4 cut, 2 T20s
Gooch - 6 majors, 3 cut, no T20
Niemann - 4 majors, no T20
Rahm - 4 majors, 1 cut, 2 T20
So you’ve a scenario that the very best players on closed shop Liv tour have barely made a dent in 25 majors since moving.
So tell me again why the other less successful players would buck that trend and start changing the face of the Top 20 in leaderboards of majors?
Unfortunately for Liv stans, the ‘form’ of their best in major championships undermines the argument that more players deserve spots in majors.
Take the 3 individual championship winners, and the player with the most wins total and you get the most successful 4 playing on Liv.
DJ, Gooch, Rahm, Niemann
DJ - 11 majors, 4 cut, 2 T20s
Gooch - 6 majors, 3 cut, no T20
Niemann - 4 majors, no T20
Rahm - 4 majors, 1 cut, 2 T20
So you’ve a scenario that the very best players on closed shop Liv tour have barely made a dent in 25 majors since moving.
So tell me again why the other less successful players would buck that trend and start changing the face of the Top 20 in leaderboards of majors?
wjemather
Well-known member
Looks very much like you're moving the goalposts again after making something up/exaggerating and getting called on it. And following up with even more ridiculous statements.
You said "one half decent finish" and now you're talking about top-5s and top-10s. Do you understand how difficult it is to finish top-20 in a major? Achieving it is more than "half-decent".
History is littered with world-class players whose ability was never reflected in their "major" record (many due to the dearth of international players in US major fields before the mid-1990s), and far lesser players who managed to win one.
Niemann was apparently deemed to be deserving due to playing and having success outside LIV, winning the Australian Open and having a few top-5s on the DPWT. Burmester also played outside LIV and had similar success, winning the Joburg Open and South African Open. If Niemann's wins on LIV were taken into account, it might be different, but the implication was that they weren't, so if one deserved an invitation, it's hard to argue the other didn't.
wjemather
Well-known member
You do know Koepka and Dechambeau have both won majors since joining LIV right?
And LIV players have more than 15 top-10s and 30 top-20 finishes between them?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
There is no moving of goalposts
It’s a top 20 finish - no one remembers them , they don’t gain entry back again for them
I don’t recall many “world class players” who have been poor in majors throughout their career - even if they didn’t get over the line they will be multiple top 5 places etc
The like of Dean Burmester are solid tour pros who have won a few minor events in their career and had the odd decent finish
There wasn’t any clamour to get into the Masters before he went to LIV off the back of winning the Tenerife Open so why now - he struggled to qualify for majors as do a lot of the decent tour pros
How has Niemann done with his invites - not blown anything away to justify them
D
Deleted member 21784
Guest
And bryson finished second in a major last year aswell! Second and a win
Not bad for a past it player
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Westwood, Monty?
Westwood - Top 5 in The Masters x 3, US Open x 3, The Open x 5, PGA x 1
Monty - Masters x 0, US Open x 4, The Open x 1, PGA x 1
Based on the above, I don't think Westwood qualifies but I think Monty's record is not so great and could be in that category.
