LIV Golf

[Deleted member 21445]

The real head scratcher here is having witnessed the massive backlash Liv got for having limited fields and no cut events and the PGA Tour also used this to criticise Liv by saying they were all about meritocracy they thought it was a good idea to copy that format for their marquee events.

They have now essentially scheduled some exhibition golf on the PGA Tour given that was what Liv was called for the same format.

Given the absolute battering they got I don't blame some of the Liv Golfers getting vocal on social media and hitting back, the PGA Tour put it on the highest tee they could for them to hit back.

The backlash for the PGA Tour has already started in the media and if it as bad as Livs backlash I can see them back tracking on this decision.

This is whichever way you look at it an epic own goal by the PGA Tour or from the players in the Delaware meeting.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631146064169299970

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Is it an attempt by the PGA to make LIV irrelevant?
My mimicking the better bits of LIV what are LIV left with? Apart from teams a shotgun start and poor income stream?

 

[BTatHome]

seems like a good way to keep the big money between the top players (which is surely the whole point of this). Increased purses for some events and forcing the top players to commit to those events, and now this new set (again for the top players). Sounds like much of the PGA tour is Premier League and then Championship level of tournaments ... and the limited entry is bound to create a bigger divide between those tournaments now too

 

[Slab]

Is it an attempt by the PGA to make LIV irrelevant?
My mimicking the better bits of LIV what are LIV left with? Apart from teams a shotgun start and poor income stream?

I really don’t care which organisation/body runs the golf I watch. I just want to see great Pro’s hit a ball round a nice looking course (any US based golf (liv or pgat) is not good viewing for me given time diff so I'm not much of a fan of golf in that country regardless of who runs it)

What’s strikes me with the latest PGAT changes of mega bucks, no cut limited field events, is the further widening gulf between it and the ET

These dozen or so will be shoe in events for the top guys to attend and heavily influencing their calendar for the year when you mix in majors, & build up events to get match fit all leaving less chance any top guys will be able to show face on the ET except when they see a payday in dubia .
Not forgetting the ‘promotion’ of the top 10 ET guys each year to pgat … what standard will the ET have on show in say 3 years from now?

 

[BiMGuy]

The big difference is that on the PGAT the players have to earn the right to play in those events and anyone can if they are good enough.

LiV is a closed shop.

 

[BubbaP]

I really don’t care which organisation/body runs the golf I watch. I just want to see great Pro’s hit a ball round a nice looking course (any US based golf (liv or pgat) is not good viewing for me given time diff so I'm not much of a fan of golf in that country regardless of who runs it)

What’s strikes me with the latest PGAT changes of mega bucks, no cut limited field events, is the further widening gulf between it and the ET

These dozen or so will be shoe in events for the top guys to attend and heavily influencing their calendar for the year when you mix in majors, & build up events to get match fit all leaving less chance any top guys will be able to show face on the ET expect when they see a payday in dubia .
Not forgetting the ‘promotion’ of the top 10 ET guys each year to pgat … what standard will the ET have on show in say 3 years from now?

Share concerns, but to save retyping...
https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/2023-professional-golf-thread.113907/post-2605992
(It's @TheBigDraw 's 'fault' as he only posts on here! )

 

[Slab]

Share concerns, but to save retyping...
https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/2023-professional-golf-thread.113907/post-2605992
(It's @TheBigDraw 's 'fault' as he only posts on here! )

Yeah I think I & others suggested this kind of ET 'win win' possibility about 500 pages ago

Its weird how quiet things are for the ET tour compared to activity (good or bad) on the liv/pgat tours

 

[wjemather]

The big difference is that on the PGAT the players have to earn the right to play in those events and anyone can if they are good enough.

LiV is a closed shop.

Except that they can't (Can Smith, etc.) and it's not, since there is a qualification route via the Asian Tour and only the leading players in the standings (and those under contract) are guaranteed to be involved the following year (sounds familiar).

As for contracted players, it is not through an open qualification system, but they have earned their right to play there - otherwise they wouldn't have been offered a contract.

 

[doublebogey7]

The real head scratcher here is having witnessed the massive backlash Liv got for having limited fields and no cut events and the PGA Tour also used this to criticise Liv by saying they were all about meritocracy they thought it was a good idea to copy that format for their marquee events.

They have now essentially scheduled some exhibition golf on the PGA Tour given that was what Liv was called for the same format.

Given the absolute battering they got I don't blame some of the Liv Golfers getting vocal on social media and hitting back, the PGA Tour put it on the highest tee they could for them to hit back.

The backlash for the PGA Tour has already started in the media and if it as bad as Livs backlash I can see them back tracking on this decision.

This is whichever way you look at it an epic own goal by the PGA Tour or from the players in the Delaware meeting.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631146064169299970

It remains a meritocracy, but with limited fields, I don't agree with it but it is clearly done to reduce the risk of more top players moving to LiV.

LiV has paid fast sums to players without hitting a ball and is invite only,those are the issues that make it exhibition golf, not anything the PGAT as done in response. I would have thought someone doing as much research as you appear to do would have understood that.

These changes will undoubtedly mean no more top 50 players move over, but they may regret making them if more in the 50-150 range go, considering that this appears to do nothing for them. Could the three recent recruits see what was coming?

I guess the PGAT had to re-act to some degree, but for me they've gone to far and it will reduce the appeal as like LiV there will be too many events that all feel the same. It may though at the same time make the lesser events more appealing, with their full fields and likely more interesting finishes like last weekend.

I do though think these changes may quicken the demise of LiV as it, fails to recruit top players, is competing for the younger viewers against something way more compelling for the majority.

Guess time will tell.

 

[wjemather]

It remains a meritocracy, but with limited fields, I don't agree with it but it is clearly done to reduce the risk of more top players moving to LiV.

LiV has paid fast sums to players without hitting a ball and is invite only,those are the issues that make it exhibition golf, not anything the PGAT as done in response. I would have thought someone doing as much research as you appear to do would have understood that.

These changes will undoubtedly mean no more top 50 players move over, but they may regret making them if more in the 50-150 range go, considering that this appears to do nothing for them.

I guess the PGAT had to re-act to some degree, but for me they've gone to far and it will reduce the appeal as like LiV there will be too many events that all feel the same. It may though at the same time make the lesser events more appealing, with their full fields and likely more interesting finishes like last weekend.

I do though think these changes may quicken the demise of LiV as it, fails to recruit top players, is competing for the younger viewers against something way more compelling for the majority.

Guess time will tell.

These are very weak arguments which can easily be applied to the long established tours/tournaments.

Many LIV golfers are not on guaranteed contracts with money up front, and tour events pay appearance fees to big names (via the back door in the case of the PGAT). The Masters Tournament is a limited field "invite only" event, yet I don't see anyone suggesting that is exhibition golf.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

These are very weak arguments which can easily be applied to the long established tours/tournaments.

Many LIV golfers are not on guaranteed contracts with money up front, and tour events pay appearance fees to big names (via the back door in the case of the PGAT). The Masters Tournament is a limited field "invite only" event, yet I don't see anyone suggesting that is exhibition golf.

The Masters in no longer invitation only. You get invited if you qualify; a past winner, top 50, Am champ etc.

 

[doublebogey7]

These are very weak arguments which can easily be applied to the long established tours/tournaments.

Many LIV golfers are not on guaranteed contracts with money up front, and tour events pay appearance fees to big names (via the back door in the case of the PGAT). The Masters Tournament is a limited field "invite only" event, yet I don't see anyone suggesting that is exhibition golf.

The Masters hasn't been "invite" only for a long time and in any case is not a PGAT event.

I am not sure what you mean by the back door, but I assume you are referring to sponsors. Nearly every player on the top tours will have sponsors who pay them to turn up for events, both golling and non golfing. It is not something I am over keen on but it is not the same as being paid the majority of your earnings directly by the tour without playing to any particular standard.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If PGAT go to “exclusive” events with no cuts then that’s poor Imo and just a new WGC of which only the matchplay I’m a fan off but you can see why they are doing it

 

[TheDiablo]

The real head scratcher here is having witnessed the massive backlash Liv got for having limited fields and no cut events and the PGA Tour also used this to criticise Liv by saying they were all about meritocracy they thought it was a good idea to copy that format for their marquee events.

They have now essentially scheduled some exhibition golf on the PGA Tour given that was what Liv was called for the same format.

Given the absolute battering they got I don't blame some of the Liv Golfers getting vocal on social media and hitting back, the PGA Tour put it on the highest tee they could for them to hit back.

The backlash for the PGA Tour has already started in the media and if it as bad as Livs backlash I can see them back tracking on this decision.

This is whichever way you look at it an epic own goal by the PGA Tour or from the players in the Delaware meeting.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631146064169299970

They had to, it's in their contract.

 

[Swango1980]

Except that they can't (Can Smith, etc.) and it's not, since there is a qualification route via the Asian Tour and only the leading players in the standings (and those under contract) are guaranteed to be involved the following year (sounds familiar).

As for contracted players, it is not through an open qualification system, but they have earned their right to play there - otherwise they wouldn't have been offered a contract.

Some good spin there.

I'd have thought there are a lot of players on LIV who didn't really earn their right to be there at all. I suspect they are there because many many other players said no, and some players got the lucky phone call to see if they wanted to fill the spot. If McIlroy, Rahm, Scheffler, Cantlay, Spieth, Thomas, etc wanted to play LIV, then there would be current LIV players that would be nowhere near LIV. And I am just naming some of the top guys. Even if you had guys in the top 50-100 in the world who wanted to join LIV, who currently are not, then there would current LIV guys stuck at their local clubs trying to win their monthly medal

 

[wjemather]

The Masters in no longer invitation only. You get invited if you qualify; a past winner, top 50, Am champ etc.

The Masters hasn't been "invite" only for a long time and in any case is not a PGAT event.

You still require an invitation to play at the Masters - no invitation, no Masters; by definition, it's invite only.
Plus, meeting criteria doesn't guarantee an invitation (I'd be surprised if Cabrera gets one) and there are special invitations given to players not meeting criteria.

I am not sure what you mean by the back door, but I assume you are referring to sponsors. Nearly every player on the top tours will have sponsors who pay them to turn up for events, both golling and non golfing. It is not something I am over keen on but it is not the same as being paid the majority of your earnings directly by the tour without playing to any particular standard.

I mean that appearance fees are not permitted on the PGAT, so other means are used to pay players to play certain events.
Players on LIV are being paid based on the standards they have set previously, and how they are expected to perform during their contract; with additional prizes/performance related pay available - it's how a lot of professional sport works; it's just new to golf (on this scale).

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The Masters is not “invite only” - the invite is just for “show”

To gain entry into the Masters you are required to fulfil qualifying criteria - if you don’t then you don’t gain entry.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Also lots in the media today about how any of this helps grow the DPWT through its strategic alliance.

That S.A move was simply to stop Liv linking up with the DPWT.

The best thing that could happen for the DPWT is if the Liv golfers win their court case.
It will strengthen the fields and having Liv golfers there will bring extra spice/interest and focus to events that have been in decline for over a decade.

 

[doublebogey7]

You still require an invitation to play at the Masters - no invitation, no Masters; by definition, it's invite only.
Plus, meeting criteria doesn't guarantee an invitation (I'd be surprised if Cabrera gets one) and there are special invitations given to players not meeting criteria.


I mean that appearance fees are not permitted on the PGAT, so other means are used to pay players to play certain events.
Players on LIV are being paid based on the standards they have set previously, and how they are expected to perform during their contract; with additional prizes/performance related pay available - it's how a lot of professional sport works; it's just new to golf (on this scale).

It is how most team sports work but I am not aware that any other individual sports bodies offer contracts in this way.

 

[wjemather]

The Masters is not “invite only” - the invite is just for “show”

To gain entry into the Masters you are required to fulfil qualifying criteria - if you don’t then you don’t gain entry.

Odd then, that two players not meeting criteria have been invited this year.