LIV Golf

[Foxholer]

No problem. I believe only 16 holes are used for the start.
Unsure about the ‘ Roster’, with 48 players from the first event and 9 new ones at Portland, that’s a total of 57 now.
Then there’s talk of more players joining, so I wonder what the maximum ‘pool’ could be?
Also, who determines who gets a game? Is it a case of sign up and we guarantee, say 4 or 5 from 8? Or who doesn’t want to travel outside the USA, which will curtail numbers, but not ‘grow the game’?
Will the 9 dropped from Centurion get another game, or have to count their dollars and hope another tour will allow them in?
It could end up like joining a new golf club and finding out you can’t get a game because all the tee times are booked.

It all rather 'cheapens'/makes less relevant the '54' emphasis by the group - now simply on the number of holes played.
I'm sure those left out will appreciate the even greater free time!

 

[Hobbit]

they are offering free tickets to everyone and anyone on social media and through local golf clubs because the can’t get people through the gates with the paid tickets just as they did with the Centurion event. Not sure what it’s got to do with friends and family travelling but I don’t recall many times players offering free tickets for Tour events

And “half the field” at the Masters being “has beens and pointless invites” ? Really ? That’s not true is it when most of the field is - the top 50 in the world , recent winners on the pga tour , recent major winners and finishes in the recent majors

There is a handful of ex winners which could be called has been - the likes of Lyle , Mize etc then a handful of Amatuers- winners of the recent Big Am comps


So yes I would call it a rich exhibition as at the end of the comp all they win is a lot of money

Your post I quoted only said players were giving out tickets. Glad we agree it’s a competition with prize money at the end of it. Quite what it finally morphs into, we’ll see.

Funny how so many on here, and elsewhere, say the Masters isn’t a proper comp but suddenly elevate it to satisfy their argument… and also decry the skewed ranking points allocation between the PGA Tour and the ET but all that is suddenly forgotten.

As I said previously, I’m not overly fussed.

 

[Blue in Munich]

LIV Golf Players Letter:

We would implore you, the custodians of the DP World Tour, to reconsider your recent penalties and sanctions and instead focus our energies on forging a path forward.

If not you will leave us no choice but to employ the various other means and methods at our disposal to rectify these wrongs.

Given their previous history, I presume that the "other means and methods" won't be legal action...

 

[D-S]

Genuine question - has anyone, after 150ish pages of circular, ingrained arguments, actually had a change of opinion / feeling with regard any aspect of LIV? If so, what? Or if you were on the fence, why has your opinion now shifted?

Some positions are obviously so entrenched that it seems there is nothing any party (LIV, players, PGA Tour etc.) can do that wouldn't garner negativity. For example, better treatment and payment for caddies even attracted negativity.

I tuned into both PGA and LIV last night - I did watch LIV for longer, because I was genuinely more interested in the players participating. At that stage the live viewing figure on Youtube UK was about 61k. From using my eyes and not Trump's Inauguration Glasses or covering my left eye, crowds at both were much of a muchness. Neither were sold out, both decent. Commentary on Sky suggested the John Deere was sold out for the weekend (however tickets with free parking are still available for both Saturday & Sunday so why they said this I have no idea); tickets for Portland are available today but 'sold out' tomorrow (worth noting they've inflicted a more limited capacity). I can't honestly say I 'enjoyed' either event last night - in fact, I did enjoy the Irish Open much more because it is a course I've played and it's nice to see Harrington & Power doing well.

The demand (and threats of legal action) from the LIV players to play on the DP World tour, despite their obvious support in building a potential rival solely to line their own pockets has made me now side more with the DP World Tour and against the LIV players whereas I was previously ambivalent and just an interested spectator. This change of mindset has nothing to do with reading the increasingly entrenched opinions on this thread.
I am sad to see a lot of money being poured into golf and all of it (so far) ending up concentrated on players of the past and ‘personalities’. To think of what good this money could have done rather than just sit in the stuffed bank accounts of the already very rich, such a shame.

 

[Ethan]

LIV Golf Players Letter:

We would implore you, the custodians of the DP World Tour, to reconsider your recent penalties and sanctions and instead focus our energies on forging a path forward.

If not you will leave us no choice but to employ the various other means and methods at our disposal to rectify these wrongs.

Given their previous history, I presume that the "other means and methods" won't be legal action...

As far as legal action is concerned, I assume that, as most US entities do, the lawyers made sure their tax exempt status and relationship with players was copper bottomed and bullet-proof, and they are confident of defending the case.

However, US law being as it is, if someone with bottomless pockets chooses a jurisdiction which is friendly to their side, e.g. in this case a Trump-appointed judge, they may be able to force the other party to settle to avoid endless rounds of litigation.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Your post I quoted only said players were giving out tickets. Glad we agree it’s a competition with prize money at the end of it. Quite what it finally morphs into, we’ll see.

Funny how so many on here, and elsewhere, say the Masters isn’t a proper comp but suddenly elevate it to satisfy their argument… and also decry the skewed ranking points allocation between the PGA Tour and the ET but all that is suddenly forgotten.

As I said previously, I’m not overly fussed.

Yes the players are giving out free tickets across social media - just as they did in the first event

And I don’t think people say the Masters isn’t a proper competition but there have been discussions about it being a major because of the size of the field and “invites” but it’s certainly a proper comp and most certainly doesn’t have “half a field of has beens etc”

And yes the ranking points have favoured the PGA tour because the higher ranked players play there - the new Co sanctioned events will help increase the points on offer for some ET events

 

[Foxholer]

Funny how so many on here, and elsewhere, say the Masters isn’t a proper comp but suddenly elevate it to satisfy their argument....

I've never really got those with that attitude! Sure it's an 'invitation' event. But the qualification criteria for 'receiving an invite' are published and, as far as I know, have never been reneged upon. It's always been in the elite of tournaments and having a non-earning cut eliminates any 'weak' participants.

LIV's team concept virtually requires continued participation from all players. To me, it's a 'differentiating gimmick' that's being pushed excessively. The difference in winners share - Schwartzel's at Centurion - demonstrates real emphasis is still on individual performance.

 

[Foxholer]

As far as legal action is concerned, I assume that, as most US entities do, the lawyers made sure their tax exempt status and relationship with players was copper bottomed and bullet-proof, and they are confident of defending the case.

However, US law being as it is, if someone with bottomless pockets chooses a jurisdiction which is friendly to their side, e.g. in this case a Trump-appointed judge, they may be able to force the other party to settle to avoid endless rounds of litigation.

First question would be where has the alleged offence been committed, therefore where would any litigation be based. As The DP Tour is based at Wentworth and has little/no effective presence in US, English jurisdiction and law would prevail.

 

[GB72]

First question would be where has the alleged offence been committed, therefore where would any litigation be based. As The DP Tour is based at Wentworth and has little/no effective presence in US, English jurisdiction and law would prevail.

The contract will normally state which legal system has jurisdiction and under the laws of which country is was drafted.

 

[Ethan]

First question would be where has the alleged offence been committed, therefore where would any litigation be based. As The DP Tour is based at Wentworth and has little/no effective presence in US, English jurisdiction and law would prevail.

These guys want a dispute with the PGA Tour, though. Settling with them gives them everything they need, and DPWT will follow suit. Winning in the UK gives them nothing in the US. UK law is also less parochial and fickle than US law. I doubt the DPWT is doing anything indefensible.

 

[Foxholer]

The contract will normally state which legal system has jurisdiction and under the laws of which country is was drafted.

Agreed! And that'll almost certainly be 'UK'. I wonder which one LIV contracts specify - as 'sponsor' is actually in a position to change them!

 

[Ethan]

Agreed! And that'll almost certainly be 'UK'. I wonder which one LIV contracts specify - as 'sponsor' is actually in a position to change them!

That is only an opening gambit. LIV Tour doesn't give a toss if GMac is able to play The Irish Open or is fined £100k. They want to see DJ or Bryson play Bay Hill with a LIV Tour hat on.

 

[Foxholer]

These guys want a dispute with the PGA Tour, though. Settling with them gives them everything they need, and DPWT will follow suit. Winning in the UK gives them nothing in the US. UK law is also less parochial and fickle than US law. I doubt the DPWT is doing anything indefensible.

The post you quoted was about the DPWT though.
Action against The PGA Tour might come, but, given the only issue is future OWGR points, I'm not certain the players will care. I'm sure the suspensions/bans would have been checked for legality. They certainly couldn't be argued successfully as 'restraint of trade' imo!

 

[Ethan]

The post you quoted was about the DPWT though.
Action against The PGA Tour might come, but, given the only issue is future OWGR points, I'm not certain the players will care. I'm sure the suspensions/bans would have been checked for legality. They certainly couldn't be argued successfully as 'restraint of trade' imo!

Sure, but I expect both PGA Tour and DPWT are on solid legal ground and this is sabre-rattling.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

?

 

[BubbaP]

Observations & musings.
Looks like teams are starting to shape around counties, regions, language so maybe that is a loose aim. Like many am currently far from convinced on the concept but it does make me laugh seeing comments (elsewhere) about not understanding how it works - it's not difficult.
Regular tour events have alternates/reserves for drop outs - so I had assumed some of the lower ranked players may be on contracts where they have a minimum number of starts but not expected to play all, to make sure they can always pull in to meet the number.
Looked in yesterday, seemed the sidebar leaderboard thingy was a bit improved. Seemed to me the shot volume was down a tad, but still up on regular tour. No ads still a bonus but that may be temporary of course.
Looked a pretty tough golf course. As mentioned by others the commentators need to pipe down some, although they did have a couple of decent moments.

 

[rksquire]

Pelley's letter is a fantastic response and clears everything up nicely and meets the deadline for response. Absolutely clears up exactly what rules have been broken. And confirms the DPWT is not second fiddle to the PGA Tour whilst highlighting the routes out of the DPWT to the PGA Tour as being more easily accessible and quicker to achieve.

He comes out swinging at certain 'named' individuals and rightly calls them on their lack of support for DPWT this past few years (the irony being they've been busy chasing the big bucks elsewhere those past few years, but it's the bigger bucks now that means he feels he can call them on it!).

He is right, McDowell's absence is extremely disappointing from the Irish Open's POV. But so, maybe more so, is McIroy's. Doesn't McIlroy's membership regulation state he needs to participate in his 'home' Open? Or is it a matter of McIlroy's confusing domicile status (NI / ROI / UK / USA?) that he's exempt from this? Or are the supposed rules only applicable to LIV players?

Either way, some lawyers are about to receive some LIV sized stacks of cash!

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Listened to a podcast today where Hunter Mahan was a guest.

He said the word amongst the players is once Liv has attracted enough players for a strong enough field they will change their format to the below

- 72 Holes with a cut, top 54 players make cut.
- All players missing the cut get a missed cut pay cheque
- Last 36 Holes at the weekend is shotgun start.
- Every event still has a huge purse that the PGA Tour can't compete with.

He didn't mention if any team element is still involved.

If that is true then the PGA Tour is in way more trouble than it already is...
That is a very strong offering that will appeal to a lot more players down the line ???

 

[Jason.H]

I see Oliver Bekker is playing DP world this week and he played in the 1st LIV event. Also comparing today’s LIV and PGA entrants you’d think they had got them mixed up. I guess money does talk.

 

[woofers]

I see Oliver Bekker is playing DP world this week and he played in the 1st LIV event.

As did Pablo Larrazabel who is also at Mount Juliet. The sanctions did not prevent them from playing in this event, and if LIV are / have paid the £100,000 fine, then so be it.