LIV Golf

[Backsticks]

The final round in Miami is a team event. All the team results between Centurion and then, will determine the sports betting prices. While the teams may seem irrelevant now, as the series unfolds, the relevance will become more obvious. The teams are slowly gaining an identity, and I suspect many South African golf fans have already attached themselves to Stingers. It’s a new concept, it’s relatively alien to pro golf, but while I acknowledge it seems a weakness in the series at the moment, it won’t be by the time they all tee off in Miami.

As it unfolds, and more and more golfers have played for any given team, does it not become more and more nonsensical. There is no team identity. How many players will have played for how many different teams ? Are they all winners ? So it doesnt matter what team name wins in Miami - if 30 players have player for the winning team over the series, half the field 'wins'.

 

[Backsticks]

Not sure I'd be wanting to break my contract with LIV under any circumstances, I could only guess of the consequences.

And they are scary mofos apparently.

 

[Depreston]

As it unfolds, and more and more golfers have played for any given team, does it not become more and more nonsensical. There is no team identity. How many players will have played for how many different teams ? Are they all winners ? So it doesnt matter what team name wins in Miami - if 30 players have player for the winning team over the series, have the field 'wins'.

the last event is centred around the teams be interesting to see if that happens

 

[Bdill93]

they are offering free tickets to everyone and anyone on social media and through local golf clubs because the can’t get people through the gates with the paid tickets just as they did with the Centurion event. Not sure what it’s got to do with friends and family travelling but I don’t recall many times players offering free tickets for Tour events

And “half the field” at the Masters being “has beens and pointless invites” ? Really ? That’s not true is it when most of the field is - the top 50 in the world , recent winners on the pga tour , recent major winners and finishes in the recent majors

There is a handful of ex winners which could be called has been - the likes of Lyle , Mize etc then a handful of Amatuers- winners of the recent Big Am comps


So yes I would call it a rich exhibition as at the end of the comp all they win is a lot of money

So the same as every PGA tour event too then?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes your right in saying right now all they win is a lot of money but its an unfair argument because for a title to gain prestige you need history, to gain history you need time.

It's only the 2nd event of a brand new tour trying to do something different.
When you do something different to what people have always known in anything it always polarise's opinion but if you launch something new and it's the same as the old under a new brand then it's not new and it doesn't stand out.

Everyone just needs to see how time judges this, it may disappear in 2 years or it may become the preeminent tour in the world.
For me either of those 2 things could happen and whether people like it or not the latter is possible right now.

These events won’t gain that prestige or any history because of the backdrop in the way they have been created

People are being handpicked and giving millions just to attend the competition- it’s not open to anyone , players can’t qualify , it’s a rich closed shop and it’s one without a key element- ranking points and it won’t be long before the players start to drop down the rankings

So ultimately it’s all just about money , it’s not about something new or growing the game or anything against current tours - it’s a money grab by the players and money directly funded by the Saudi state - the same state that managed to get a guy out of Portland who it seems killed someone

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So the same as every PGA tour event too then?

Well clearly not

At the end of the PGA tour event you gain ranking points for entry into other events , Fed Ex Cup , Ryder Cup , World Ranking , points towards keeping your tour card

And if you win - Tour exemptions and of course prestige of winning a PGA Tour event

 

[Bdill93]

Well clearly not

At the end of the PGA tour event you gain ranking points for entry into other events , Fed Ex Cup , Ryder Cup , World Ranking , points towards keeping your tour card

And if you win - Tour exemptions and of course prestige of winning a PGA Tour event

Lol, just wanted you to talk about ranking points again

They dont care, they're earning buckets.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Lol, just wanted you to talk about ranking points again

They dont care, they're earning buckets.

Yes some won’t care because of the money - any player that wants to play in Majors , Ryder Cups etc will care hence why there will be a lot of the players who won’t go near LIV tour

 

[Orikoru]

Yes some won’t care because of the money - any player that wants to play in Majors , Ryder Cups etc will care hence why there will be a lot of the players who won’t go near LIV tour

I believe there will be a tipping point where enough people go over to LIV that the PGA Tour will have to rethink their position and bend a little bit to avoid weakening their product and the majors and Ryder Cup will have to do the same to avoid weakening their fields substantially.

 

[Foxholer]

Really? Are you sure ?

The 6 missing out was an assumption, but certainly 12 teams of 4 (= 48, so a not unreasonable one).
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/liv-golf-explained-format-captains-teams-and-team-names

 

[Foxholer]

Just to try and gauge some sort of difference from Centruion to Portland, the day 1 live stream from the latter has had 441 thousand views. Conclusion - it’s growing.

I wish I could get half that amount of SPIN on my shots into greens!

Of course it's 'growing'
1. It's in US where the population is
a) close to 5 times the size of UK
b) generally ignorant of/unconcerned about anything that happens outside US
c) won't watch a live program timed to start in the middle of the night like Centurion was

Btw Good morning...How's sunny Oregon? Still dark I would guess right now.

 

[woofers]

The 6 missing out was an assumption, but certainly 12 teams of 4 (= 48, so a not unreasonable one).

Which 6 missing out? Where do you get that assumption from ?
There are 9 players from the first event that have not got a game in the second event.
I think you and Bdill93 maybe confusing the fact that it’s 54 holes, not 54 players.
Even their crappy website confirms it’s 48 for each event.

 

[4LEX]

Regardless of where the money is from or the conduct of Greg Norman, I watched for a few hours last night with an open mind and let's be honest - the whole thing is a joke event as it stands. Poor atmosphere, no cutting edge, it's like a pre season friendly in football. The big names have already got their millions so don't need to even bother trying. It's just a rubbish standard of golf.

I think they need to massively rethink the format both as a shotgun and change the team aspect. It's an invitational so they can get do whatever they want. To end up with the current format you've got to question those running it. If their market is YouTube then put some YouTubers in the field each week. I'd be more interested to see Rick Shiels playing with DJ or seeing Good Good there. Throw in some female players. Add a few local scratch players and see what they can shoot around a tour standard course from the same tees. Sprinkle a few celebs like Jordan or Bale too. Make it fun as it's not a serious golf tour as it stands.

The only highlight last night was G-Mac hacking it around like a 4 handicapper yet again. He speaks of 'growing the game', maybe he should try to sort his out first

 

[Foxholer]

Which 6 missing out? Where do you get that assumption from ?
There are 9 players from the first event that have not got a game in the second event.
I think you and Bdill93 maybe confusing the fact that it’s 54 holes, not 54 players.
Even their crappy website confirms it’s 48 for each event.

Maybe - which would explain the lack of 'team' gaps on their leaderboard.
But it wasn't confusion with the 54 holes, but assumption from the Shotgun start and 3 players per hole. another '54' sign.
Are they only using 16 holes for the Shotgun start?
So 6 of their '54' player 'Roster' (or maybe more as my info was from Wiki, so likely not 'bang up to date') sit out each event.
Thanks for the correction.

 

[rksquire]

Genuine question - has anyone, after 150ish pages of circular, ingrained arguments, actually had a change of opinion / feeling with regard any aspect of LIV? If so, what? Or if you were on the fence, why has your opinion now shifted?

Some positions are obviously so entrenched that it seems there is nothing any party (LIV, players, PGA Tour etc.) can do that wouldn't garner negativity. For example, better treatment and payment for caddies even attracted negativity.

I tuned into both PGA and LIV last night - I did watch LIV for longer, because I was genuinely more interested in the players participating. At that stage the live viewing figure on Youtube UK was about 61k. From using my eyes and not Trump's Inauguration Glasses or covering my left eye, crowds at both were much of a muchness. Neither were sold out, both decent. Commentary on Sky suggested the John Deere was sold out for the weekend (however tickets with free parking are still available for both Saturday & Sunday so why they said this I have no idea); tickets for Portland are available today but 'sold out' tomorrow (worth noting they've inflicted a more limited capacity). I can't honestly say I 'enjoyed' either event last night - in fact, I did enjoy the Irish Open much more because it is a course I've played and it's nice to see Harrington & Power doing well.

 

[Orikoru]

Regardless of where the money is from or the conduct of Greg Norman, I watched for a few hours last night with an open mind and let's be honest - the whole thing is a joke event as it stands. Poor atmosphere, no cutting edge, it's like a pre season friendly in football. The big names have already got their millions so don't need to even bother trying. It's just a rubbish standard of golf.

I think they need to massively rethink the format both as a shotgun and change the team aspect. It's an invitational so they can get do whatever they want. To end up with the current format you've got to question those running it. If their market is YouTube then put some YouTubers in the field each week. I'd be more interested to see Rick Shiels playing with DJ or seeing Good Good there. Throw in some female players. Add a few local scratch players and see what they can shoot around a tour standard course from the same tees. Sprinkle a few celebs like Jordan or Bale too. Make it fun as it's not a serious golf tour as it stands.

The only highlight last night was G-Mac hacking it around like a 4 handicapper yet again. He speaks of 'growing the game', maybe he should try to sort his out first

I think she's too busy fighting her latest driving ban at the moment.

 

[Swango1980]

I think she's too busy fighting her latest driving ban at the moment.

There is no doubt she'd sign up to LIV in a heartbeat if she was asked. They'd even pay for her own chauffer

 

[Depreston]

Genuine question - has anyone, after 150ish pages of circular, ingrained arguments, actually had a change of opinion / feeling with regard any aspect of LIV? If so, what? Or if you were on the fence, why has your opinion now shifted?

Some positions are obviously so entrenched that it seems there is nothing any party (LIV, players, PGA Tour etc.) can do that wouldn't garner negativity. For example, better treatment and payment for caddies even attracted negativity.

I tuned into both PGA and LIV last night - I did watch LIV for longer, because I was genuinely more interested in the players participating. At that stage the live viewing figure on Youtube UK was about 61k. From using my eyes and not Trump's Inauguration Glasses or covering my left eye, crowds at both were much of a muchness. Neither were sold out, both decent. Commentary on Sky suggested the John Deere was sold out for the weekend (however tickets with free parking are still available for both Saturday & Sunday so why they said this I have no idea); tickets for Portland are available today but 'sold out' tomorrow (worth noting they've inflicted a more limited capacity). I can't honestly say I 'enjoyed' either event last night - in fact, I did enjoy the Irish Open much more because it is a course I've played and it's nice to see Harrington & Power doing well.

I thought it might be a bit Stanford 20/20 but it's clear to see that it's here to stay at least until the Saudis are happy to bank roll it.

Its very interesting more so around who will stay who will leave what will the tours do and the majors etc... the events themselves though i won't be watching as i don't agree with a "state" being able to buy a sport let alone it being Saudi Arabia. I also didn't like the structure or broadcast of the centurion event it's not how i like to watch golf.

 

[woofers]

Are they only using 16 holes for the Shotgun start?
So 6 of their '54' player 'Roster' (or maybe more as my info was from Wiki, so likely not 'bang up to date') sit out each event.
Thanks for the correction.

No problem. I believe only 16 holes are used for the start.
Unsure about the ‘ Roster’, with 48 players from the first event and 9 new ones at Portland, that’s a total of 57 now.
Then there’s talk of more players joining, so I wonder what the maximum ‘pool’ could be?
Also, who determines who gets a game? Is it a case of sign up and we guarantee, say 4 or 5 from 8? Or who doesn’t want to travel outside the USA, which will curtail numbers, but not ‘grow the game’?
Will the 9 dropped from Centurion get another game, or have to count their dollars and hope another tour will allow them in?
It could end up like joining a new golf club and finding out you can’t get a game because all the tee times are booked.

 

[Ethan]

Pelley has come out punching:

“There has been a leak to the media of a letter we received on behalf of a number of LIV Golf players which contains so many inaccuracies that it cannot remain unchallenged.

“Before joining LIV Golf, players knew there would be consequences if they chose money over competition. Many of them at the time understood and accepted that. Indeed, as one player named in the letter said in a media interview earlier this year; ‘If they ban me, they ban me.’ It is not credible that some are now surprised with the actions we have taken.

“The letter claims that these players ‘care deeply’ for the DP World Tour. An analysis of the past participation statistics on our Tour in recent years of several of the leading players named, suggests otherwise.

“One player in particular named in the note has only played six Rolex Series events in the past five years. Another one, only four. I wish many of them had been as keen to play on our Tour then as they seem to be now, based on the fact they have either resigned their membership of the PGA TOUR or, if they are still in membership, have been suspended indefinitely.

“Furthermore, given how deeply these players say they care about the DP World Tour, perhaps some of them could have played in Ireland this week in support of our new title sponsor, in particular one player who gave us a signed commitment to play at Mount Juliet.

“With that player currently in action at Pumpkin Ridge, you can imagine the allegation in the letter that we are in the wrong, is hard to accept.

“We also take great exception to an allegation made near the end of the letter which states we are somehow playing ‘second fiddle’ to the PGA TOUR. Nothing could be further from the truth.

“We held a player meeting in Ireland on Tuesday where we outlined in great detail all the many benefits of our expanded relationship with the PGA TOUR.

“One of those is an unprecedented ten cards on offer to the PGA TOUR, cards that many of the players named in this letter desperately wanted to attain in the early stages of their careers. Why now be critical of those trying to do the same?

“The letter also expresses supposed concern about the future of the DP World Tour. Rest assured no-one should have any worries on that score.

“The DP World Tour is a vibrant, independent and global Tour with increasing and guaranteed prize fund growth over the next five years. We have fantastic tournaments across the year including a host of wonderful national Opens, all played in front of huge crowds, illustrated perfectly by this week’s Horizon Irish Open.

“Finally, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on any potential legal matters.

“I will simply reiterate that our Members’ Regulations which have been in force for more than 30 years, have been accepted by all the players, are there to protect all of our members, and we will use them to take all necessary steps to protect their interests.

“The sanctions for those members who knowingly broke our rules by playing at the Centurion Club without a release are proportionate, fair and, I believe, considered necessary by the majority of our members.”