I Know it is Tradition but it is Still Annoying

[GB72]

Over half our committee work full time away from the golf club, and over half the committee are between 45 & 53, i.e. well below the average age of the members. And bearing in mind how many ladies play I'm not quite sure why you'd need their vote to carry the day. And if the average age of the club is 60 I guess that means that the seniors aren't exactly a sginificant majority.

And yes someone has to be seen to be good enough before anyone would vote for them but hey, if someone wants it they've got to work for it. Why would someone cast their vote for an unknown quantity?

From my experience of recent AGM's the majority of younger members don't turn up anyway. Younger members talk of change but what effort do they put in to achieve it?

The committee need to take on board the ideas for change and encourage the younger members to follow through with them. How much of a change would it be if someone in authority did not ignore the forward thinking suggestions but instead said 'ok, you want the club to go in that direction then come and make a presentation in front of the next committee meeting and we will debate it'. Clubs can get people involved without them being in full time committee membership. Clubs should use the resources that they have and try and get others involved.

 

[USER1999]

They could, but they don't. I have three close friends who have put themselves up for election, and all would be good additions to the board/committee but they don't get voted on. Senior section, 100 votes, ladies 70 votes, you need them on board, seriously, or you won't make it. Some one who spans the ages, will get in every time.

 

[Hobbit]

Homer, I'd say its different things in different clubs. But at the end of the day it comes down to who actually wants change enough to vote. If people aren't willing to vote for something then they've made a choice for what they want, i.e. the status quo.

 

[Dodger]

Got to agree 100% with Murph here. We have serious communication isues at our club and I've done some extensive work to show the benefits of social networking, using e-mail, actually updating the website etc and was quite happy to offer my time and services to serve and get it off the ground. It would have been ideal too see if the course was open, on temps, tees booked for society/comp and for giving members up to the minute news as well as promoting social events (where we could make good money but never seem to get it quite right) and giving course updates etc.

I was told that the majority of our club don't use twitter, facebook or regularly look at e-mails from their own research. How stuck in their ways are our members. I think the 21st century has passed most of them by. It also comes down to Murphs other point and your face has to fit. If not you can be as keen as mustard, have some good ideas and never get to serve. If you can't get young blood onto the committee how can you bring fresh ideas like mine (ok it may not have been 100% feasible in its current context). I even showed them some of the electronic newsletters and table top bulletins some of you kindly forwarded to me when I asked a few months back.

We've had the AGM and the same faces get to stay where they are. Off the 9 places on various committees available the youngest person to be elected was in his late 40's and had been a member for over a decade. Can't see anything changing there very soon.

I didn't realise you had joined my club Homer....apart from that are you enjoying it?

Scary parallels.

 

[USER1999]

Dodger, homer, agreement? Scary.

I'm out.

 

[Hobbit]

The committee need to take on board the ideas for change and encourage the younger members to follow through with them. How much of a change would it be if someone in authority did not ignore the forward thinking suggestions but instead said 'ok, you want the club to go in that direction then come and make a presentation in front of the next committee meeting and we will debate it'. Clubs can get people involved without them being in full time committee membership. Clubs should use the resources that they have and try and get others involved.

We often co-opt members who have specific knowledge. We have at least 4 at present. We've had a 24 yr old do two presentations this year and taken on pretty much everything he's proposed. We've had a lot of input from 2 accountants who are club members but not on committee... the important thing is the club, first and foremost. Committee's aren't there to support fragile ego's or give people power trips.

As I said in my reply to Homer, different things in different clubs.

 

[viscount17]

I've served on a number of committees over the years, from school governor to neighbourhood watch. In my experience the hardest thing is to get people to put their names forward, so to then not take them up on it is plain daft.
Maybe the way forward is the quiet revolution. If you can't get elected as things stand suggest that the committee take on shadows 'to secure the future of the club'. Once there in any capacity you'll have a better chance of being elected - mind you it's head down, mouth shut until you do get in.

 

[bobmac]

Belton Park GC has a tradition that is rediculous.
It is a private club in Lincolnshire with 3 loops of 9 holes. The main 18 hole course and a shorter newer 9 holes (only 30 years old).
On Thursdays, the seniors have their roll up which is fine. 8 am they're off. Crazily, also on Thursday, the Ladies have their roll up at 10 am.
Now if the seniors are allocated the newer 9 as part of their round, all hell breaks loose. Unfortunately, it's the same as the women. Nobody wants to play the new 9.
You're probably thinking thats ok.The seniors all go off the first starting at 8 followed by the ladies at 10. Sadly, some of the seniors dont want to queue on the first so go off the 10th. They then want to start on the first for their back 9 in front of the ladies The air can turn blue sometimes.
I suggested one of them could chose a different day and have the course to themselves.
I'd have been more popular if I had suggested jeans be allowed on the golf course.

 

[Dodger]

All clubs should issue job descriptions to committee members outlining what should be expected of them and support it with a club mission statement.

If the prospective new committee members isn't willing to sign the job description then you don't need them.....if he does sign but makes a decision that looks like it is for his own good then you refer him back to the mission statement.

Too many are in it for their own self gratification....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We often co-opt members who have specific knowledge. We have at least 4 at present. We've had a 24 yr old do two presentations this year and taken on pretty much everything he's proposed. We've had a lot of input from 2 accountants who are club members but not on committee... the important thing is the club, first and foremost. Committee's aren't there to support fragile ego's or give people power trips.

As I said in my reply to Homer, different things in different clubs.

Not looking for a power trip. I asked a lot of forrumers a while back about how their club communicates on everything from whether it is open/on temps, to monthly news bulletins, publicising social events. Basically a full gamut on how they get the word across. Significant numbers use e-mail and have at least 95% of membership e-mail addresses on file. Many are embracing Twitter, facebook etc as a way of catching not just the youngsters but a lot of the mid age bracket (30-60) as the majority seem to have smart phones or visit these sites via a pc.

In essence the 2009 captain thought we were missing several huge tricks and wanted to see what we could do about communicating smarter, cheaper and quicker. Sadly the staus quo has changed and we've had the power balance changed so that a lot of those serving from the top down, aren't prepared to be as open minded.

Its funny how Dodger and I (who have had more than the odd differing word) have experienced the same issues. I doubt we're isolated cases. Even with co-opting, there has to be the take up and frankly even if the club decided to go down that road, all the powerpoint presentations in the world won't drag some of the current encumbants into the 20th century

 

[Tommo21]

You dont need to be young to have forward ideas.

 

[texastee]

I've been the Captain at our golf club and would never have dreamt of 'pushing-in', though it was an unwritten 'rule' to be able to do so. Was invited on a few occasions but declined. I always felt subscription paying members should have the 'right of way'. Anyway, most of them were my mates and they would have given me a hard time the following year. )

 

[richart]

Homer you could join my club, and get straight on the committee! We have had more positions than candidates in the last two years. Captains are serving their second term, as no one wants the job. We have an active junior section, but seem to have very few members in their 20's and 30's. Those we have are not interested in joining the committee presumably because of work and family commitments. As for the rest, it might be of course that they are happy with the way the club is run, and see no need to get on the committee to change things ?

Despite the fact that most commitee members are in their late 40's and 50's, we are still a fairly progressive club, and have recently employed a marketing manager who has paid his way by attracting new members. We have open days for men, women and juniors which are well attended. The days include coaching from the Pro, meeting the committee and playing the course. All newsletters, tee times, general news are sent to members by email.

We do have certain traditions regarding what you can wear on the course, but casual clothes are acceptable everywhere in the clubhouse including the dining room. The rules we have suit the vast majority of our members, rather than a small minority.

 

[Cobra84]

I've been the Captain at our golf club and would never have dreamt of 'pushing-in', though it was an unwritten 'rule' to be able to do so. Was invited on a few occasions but declined. I always felt subscription paying members should have the 'right of way'. Anyway, most of them were my mates and they would have given me a hard time the following year. )

The Captain at my home club did the complete opposite just recently. He so intended to get ahead of me and 2 others, that he decided to do that, even though we'd all hit our drives and were leaving the second tee. The Captain came up to my friend and said to him, "we're playing through now."

From what I know, there's no club rule giving the Captain the rights to go ahead of others. Even if there was a rule, I had no problem with him doing that. It was just the way he did it that bothered me.

 

[MadAdey]

An apology to Hobbit and Richart, but this is not a personal attack on you or your clubs. It is just the general observation at private Golf Clubs. The AGM has happened at my club recently. The same old faces re-elected and the new people to get elected onto the committee are the ones that were being discussed int he club house by the older members. Members of the committee do a lot of work for the club and it is appreciated as the club could not function without them. Problem is the general age of the committees that run golf clubs. Younger people would love to do their part for the club but do not have the time in their personal lives for the huge commitment it can be. At my club the committee are all retired or semi-retired giving them the time to fully commit to what they have volunteered to do. There is no way a 20/30 something man with a full time job, 2 kids and a wife to keep happy could get away with spending anymore time at the club or at home doing club business, it is just not gonna wash with your other half.

At a club I was a member of a few years ago this point was bought up by younger members and also some off the older members in their 40's. What was proposed was that the golf club committee had a sub committee of people under the age of 35 that would work as a back up to the committee. They would not have the same power that the committee, but it would be a way of younger members to get a voice that could be listened to, also getting them involved will lead to them then joining the full committee at a later date. The person proposing this was in his 40's and was willing to work as chairman of this committee to make sure that these younger members where acting with the best interests of the club and also to give them some more clout when putting their findings to the committee. So what would you then have..... a group of young members who are the future of the club, that have a different perspective on things that could then bring things in front of the club committee. I thought that sounded great younger people getting to go to committee meetings and have a say without the large commitment that is involved with being a full committee member. Well as you can imagine that went down well didn't it. A majority of the members present where older as it was midweek early evening and most younger people had full time jobs to do. It was soon shot down by the older members, I think the were frightened by the thought of young fresh ideas changing the way of an old golf club. They argued at the AGM that what did young members know about running a club and they would turn the clubhouse into a rowdy bar with cheap drinks given half the chance. SO just something that I have seen personally to show the attitude of committees towards new ideas that go against the grain.

 

[chrisd]

An apology to Hobbit and Richart, but this is not a personal attack on you or your clubs. It is just the general observation at private Golf Clubs. The AGM has happened at my club recently. The same old faces re-elected and the new people to get elected onto the committee are the ones that were being discussed int he club house by the older members. Members of the committee do a lot of work for the club and it is appreciated as the club could not function without them. Problem is the general age of the committees that run golf clubs. Younger people would love to do their part for the club but do not have the time in their personal lives for the huge commitment it can be. At my club the committee are all retired or semi-retired giving them the time to fully commit to what they have volunteered to do. There is no way a 20/30 something man with a full time job, 2 kids and a wife to keep happy could get away with spending anymore time at the club or at home doing club business, it is just not gonna wash with your other half.

At a club I was a member of a few years ago this point was bought up by younger members and also some off the older members in their 40's. What was proposed was that the golf club committee had a sub committee of people under the age of 35 that would work as a back up to the committee. They would not have the same power that the committee, but it would be a way of younger members to get a voice that could be listened to, also getting them involved will lead to them then joining the full committee at a later date. The person proposing this was in his 40's and was willing to work as chairman of this committee to make sure that these younger members where acting with the best interests of the club and also to give them some more clout when putting their findings to the committee. So what would you then have..... a group of young members who are the future of the club, that have a different perspective on things that could then bring things in front of the club committee. I thought that sounded great younger people getting to go to committee meetings and have a say without the large commitment that is involved with being a full committee member. Well as you can imagine that went down well didn't it. A majority of the members present where older as it was midweek early evening and most younger people had full time jobs to do. It was soon shot down by the older members, I think the were frightened by the thought of young fresh ideas changing the way of an old golf club. They argued at the AGM that what did young members know about running a club and they would turn the clubhouse into a rowdy bar with cheap drinks given half the chance. SO just something that I have seen personally to show the attitude of committees towards new ideas that go against the grain.

It is sad that your club acted that way but I dont think that it is representative of private clubs in general. If and when younger people stand for committee at ours, there is a likelihood that they would get on. In fact, ours would welcome an input from fresh talented people with good ideas. Yes, they do have to obtain the required vote but that is democracy at work and, I guess it means that if their faces are not seen around the club then it is less likely that they will pick up votes if "established" people stand. There are some years that we dont have a full compliment of nominees and it was the case when I first joined the committee that I was co-opted on and then stood properly the next year.

My only critism is when people stand just because they are upset about one issue, and stand, so that they have a platform to change what they dont like and therfore take the place of someone who will be interested in all the issues that come up.

Ultimately, there is no point in younger people saying that they dont do it as they dont have time and then criticising what goes on. I was the Chairman of my local football club (100+ members) at the age of 19 and am still President today aged 59 and work my life round football, golf, running my own business and my family.
Yes there are a lot of meetings and I have to juggle things around but it can be done but I did have views and wanted to get involved.

I think the answer at any club that is reluctant to change, is to get a younger person who is willing to stand and then canvas for him/her, make sure that everyone attends the AGM and VOTE! Also, there is nothing wrong with emailing or writing in with ideas for change to the committee whenever you want as, eventually, they can't keep ignoring reasonable views - they may even welcome them!


Chris

 

[Hobbit]

MadAdey, I don't see opposing views as personal attacks, and quite frankly without opposition and questions there is no progress. It is disappointing to read from several forumers that their club committe's are being run as a personal hobbies for the select few.

However, I don't subscribe to the view that all younger people haven't got the time because of young familes etc. I don't doubt that some have commitments, or spouses/partners who make greater demands on their time than others but its a conversation I've had many times with people who say they haven't got the time. I can go into my local pub a couple of hundred yards down the road any night of the week and see several younger members who've obviously got time away from their families. I dare say that scenario is repeated in several pubs and clubs in the town, not to mention the 5-a-side and other past times they have. They have the time but choose to do other things with it.

Like Chrisd I got involved with committee work at a relatively early age, and have been doing it for about 13-14 years now - Chris, you're loads older than me. Once on board it doesn't take long before your ideas get listened to... commonsense pretty much always wins the day. Once you've established credibility, getting support for new ideas does happen. It doesn't happen overnight, and that in itself takes stamina, but equally you've got to understand that the other committee member have to learn to trust what they're hearing. They don't want to hang their hat on something that will blow up in their faces.

Like Chris's club we welcome anyone, especially someone younger, putting up for committe. Our AGM saw 3 voted on unopposed, in effect no vote was necessary. Worryingly, several members are past captains which, although should be enjoying the fruits of the retirement from committee work, find themselves being asked to stay on. Perhaps even more worrying in recent times is past captains being asked if they'll be captain again if needed. So far so good but...

 

[chrisd]

In addition to Hobbits comments

The committee needs long serving and experienced people as well as the young and keen. When new people join a committee (young and old) they invariably suggest a number of changes that they would like, often those changes have been tried before and havn't worked so you need the continuity to be able to evolve a club but not jump from one way to another when it isn't going to work. For me continuity of decision making is vital with fresh blood and ideas challenging the old dogma, then, what is right normally is obvious.


One of the concerns I have at my club is that sometimes they get together a group of former captains to advise on some difficult issues and, frankly some of the former captains are right t*sspots who were carried by the committee during their year of office!

Chris

 

[MadAdey]

I hear exactly what you are saying about young people being in the pub in their spare time, but that is probably not a vast majority of those 20/30 somethings that would like to be involved and have say at committee meetings. The ones that would like to be involved are the ones that are not down the pub every night. They are at home looking after other commitments that they have with work and family matters. I would love to put myself forward for nomination at my club. Even though I have only been a member for 18 months I have got to know a lot of the members including the committee and often stand chatting in the bar them, so I would have a chance of getting voted in. My problem is being in the armed forces. This year I have been away for nearly 6 months of it so would not be much use to a committee as it is hard to attend meetings when I'm the other side of the world.

We can argue until we are blue in the face about this but you saying that younger members would prefer to be in the pub rather than on the committee, is as bad as me saying that committee's are full of retired old narrow minded men that do not like change and run it like the Mafia. I know that is wrong in most cases just like saying young people are all sat in the pub claiming not to have the time is.

 

[chrisd]

I hear exactly what you are saying about young people being in the pub in their spare time, but that is probably not a vast majority of those 20/30 somethings that would like to be involved and have say at committee meetings. The ones that would like to be involved are the ones that are not down the pub every night. They are at home looking after other commitments that they have with work and family matters. I would love to put myself forward for nomination at my club. Even though I have only been a member for 18 months I have got to know a lot of the members including the committee and often stand chatting in the bar them, so I would have a chance of getting voted in. My problem is being in the armed forces. This year I have been away for nearly 6 months of it so would not be much use to a committee as it is hard to attend meetings when I'm the other side of the world.

We can argue until we are blue in the face about this but you saying that younger members would prefer to be in the pub rather than on the committee, is as bad as me saying that committee's are full of retired old narrow minded men that do not like change and run it like the Mafia. I know that is wrong in most cases just like saying young people are all sat in the pub claiming not to have the time is.

Most clubs have a qualifying period to stand for committee, ours is 3 full years, this is so that you have gained some better knowledge of the workings of the club and also proved that you are a good member. So your 18 months wouldn't be enough for most clubs.

Chris