I Know it is Tradition but it is Still Annoying

[bluewolf]

Aaaaaaahhhhh. Now I get it. You have a personal issue with rugby players. You are right on one thing though. We are going to have to agree to disagree. I would like to hear your personal sporting preference though (genuinely). Which sport has managed to sufficiently control it's players to your liking.

 

[sev112]

Aaaaaaahhhhh. Now I get it. You have a personal issue with rugby players. You are right on one thing though. We are going to have to agree to disagree. I would like to hear your personal sporting preference though (genuinely). Which sport has managed to sufficiently control it's players to your liking.

Ah but there you would be jumping to conclusions and being wrong again, bearing in mind i played and captained rugby for quite a few years. Even back then i had an issue with individuals being more than just a little bit aggressive.

 

[bluewolf]

Ah but there you would be jumping to conclusions and being wrong again, bearing in mind i played and captained rugby for quite a few years. Even back then i had an issue with individuals being more than just a little bit aggressive.

So you did/do have a personal issue with rugby players. Not wrong then. Look mate, I don't know your backstory, and to be honest, I don't really care. I made a point that some traditions are good and that those same traditions are beneficial to those who play the game. You jumped up and down and stated that whole sports should be discounted from consideration due to isolated incidents within those sports. You still haven't answered my question regarding which sports should be viewed as an example to others and have instead given me a short list of other sports which also contain violent incidents. Do you believe that all sports which are played at a high tempo, with (usually) controlled aggression should be banned. Or do you accept that occasionally people will overstep the boundary. And please don't list instances such as groups of rugby players getting wasted and wondering round with their tackle hanging out. You don't have to be a rugby player to do that. In fact, I think it was raised earlier in this thread as an example of something that golfers occasionally do if they don't make it past the ladies tee.

 

[USER1999]

I have never, ever, seen a tiddly winks player behaving in a way that can possibly be interpreted as any thing other than the utmost decorum.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Ah but there you would be jumping to conclusions and being wrong again, bearing in mind i played and captained rugby for quite a few years. Even back then i had an issue with individuals being more than just a little bit aggressive.

So you did/do have a personal issue with rugby players. Not wrong then. Look mate, I don't know your backstory, and to be honest, I don't really care. I made a point that some traditions are good and that those same traditions are beneficial to those who play the game. You jumped up and down and stated that whole sports should be discounted from consideration due to isolated incidents within those sports. You still haven't answered my question regarding which sports should be viewed as an example to others and have instead given me a short list of other sports which also contain violent incidents. Do you believe that all sports which are played at a high tempo, with (usually) controlled aggression should be banned. Or do you accept that occasionally people will overstep the boundary. And please don't list instances such as groups of rugby players getting wasted and wondering round with their tackle hanging out. You don't have to be a rugby player to do that. In fact, I think it was raised earlier in this thread as an example of something that golfers occasionally do if they don't make it past the ladies tee.

Finding it hard to see where this rugby/sports agression tangent is going in connection to the thread other than becoming a bit of a mexican stand off - agree to disagree guys?

 

[bluewolf]

Finding it hard to see where this rugby/sports agression tangent is going in connection to the thread other than becoming a bit of a mexican stand off - agree to disagree guys?

Agreed... If your at Woburn or the old farts game i'll buy you a pint Sev.. Mines a lemonade as I don't really drink...

 

[sev112]

Agreed... If your at Woburn or the old farts game i'll buy you a pint Sev.. Mines a lemonade as I don't really drink...

Absolutely - no grudges held here i find the more extreme arguments force ourselves to challenge the basis of our own views, no harm in that at all. See you at Woburn

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Agreed... If your at Woburn or the old farts game i'll buy you a pint Sev.. Mines a lemonade as I don't really drink...

Absolutely - no grudges held here i find the more extreme arguments force ourselves to challenge the basis of our own views, no harm in that at all. See you at Woburn

Looking forward to seeing you at Woburn too. Mines a diet Coke.

 

[MadAdey]

No I am saying the rules of our club say your must have a collar on your shirt. Think you will find this is a fairly standard rule at most clubs. Just because something is 'designer' doesn't mean it meets golf club rules.

I do know the standard ruling at most clubs and have always been members of private clubs all over the British isles due to being in the forces and moving around every 3 or 4 years. My point was this..... if something is produced by a golf manufacturer and is actually worn by professional golfers whilst playing on tour, then why is it not allowed at your local golf club? Would you turn round to Tiger and tell him to change his shirt or get off your course?


I am not trying to start an argument, just trying to put a point of view across on how at times golf is sa far stuck in the past. I certainly do not want to start seeing people in bleach wash denims and hob nail boots on the course but is it not about time the old guard that runs golf clubs relaxed a bit more. For gods sake my Golf club still insists you wear a jacket and tie in the dining room in the evening. I would love to bring the other half up after I have played on a Saturday afternoon for a bite to eat but getting showered and changed into a jacket and tie is a bit too much. When the days of that type of dress code is not enforced by top restaurants anymore. I have eaten in many great restaurants wearing smart jeans and a shirt with a jacket.

 

[bluewolf]

Its a fair point MadAdey. It's fairly commonplace to see the Pros wearing clothes that wouldn't be allowed at some golf clubs. And don't get me started on the LPGA. Tuck your shirt in woman. Not that i'm complaining though..

 

[Monty_Brown]

Finding it hard to see where this rugby/sports agression tangent is going in connection to the thread other than becoming a bit of a mexican stand off - agree to disagree guys?

Because this thread contains an evil life force than can only surive my sucking the negativity out of feuding posters. Like a vampire.

It's great

 

[bluewolf]

Because this thread contains an evil life force than can only surive my sucking the negativity out of feuding posters. Like a vampire.

It's great

VOYEUR......

 

[richart]

I do know the standard ruling at most clubs and have always been members of private clubs all over the British isles due to being in the forces and moving around every 3 or 4 years. My point was this..... if something is produced by a golf manufacturer and is actually worn by professional golfers whilst playing on tour, then why is it not allowed at your local golf club? Would you turn round to Tiger and tell him to change his shirt or get off your course?
View attachment 255

I am not trying to start an argument, just trying to put a point of view across on how at times golf is sa far stuck in the past. I certainly do not want to start seeing people in bleach wash denims and hob nail boots on the course but is it not about time the old guard that runs golf clubs relaxed a bit more. For gods sake my Golf club still insists you wear a jacket and tie in the dining room in the evening. I would love to bring the other half up after I have played on a Saturday afternoon for a bite to eat but getting showered and changed into a jacket and tie is a bit too much. When the days of that type of dress code is not enforced by top restaurants anymore. I have eaten in many great restaurants wearing smart jeans and a shirt with a jacket.

Sorry but you tried to put words into my mouth by saying I would rather see a scruffy t-shirt than smart designer clobber without a collar. I didn't say that, I just confirmed the rules of my club and many others. I did not give my personal opinion, as in this instance it is irrelevant. It was a comment, abide by the rules of the club or play elsewhere.

Golf manufacturers can produce what they like, doesn't make it acceptable to all clubs. Just because it has a designer label does that mean clubs should ignore their own rules ? I believe the majority of our members, and certainly the ones I have spoken to, are quite happy with the current dress code. No one has brought up changing it in the last five years AGM's.

 

[Hobbit]

I certainly do not want to start seeing people in bleach wash denims and hob nail boots on the course but is it not about time the old guard that runs golf clubs relaxed a bit more. QUOTE]

Sorry to be repeating something I've posted a few times before in this thread but the old guard don't run golf clubs. Or if they do its because they are allowed to by the majority of members.

If members don't like something they put in a proposal before the AGM. If its serious enough, there's nowt stopping them calling an EGM.

Blaming the old guard is a cop out by lazy members. If you feel strongly enough about something, and have enough support amongst the members, then do something about it.

 

[chrisd]

Sorry to be repeating something I've posted a few times before in this thread but the old guard don't run golf clubs. Or if they do its because they are allowed to by the majority of members.

If members don't like something they put in a proposal before the AGM. If its serious enough, there's nowt stopping them calling an EGM.

Blaming the old guard is a cop out by lazy members. If you feel strongly enough about something, and have enough support amongst the members, then do something about it.

Absolutely agree Hobbit.

The make up of committees is made up of those people who are willing to put themselves forward and then get voted in. All clubs in my opinion want young, vibrant people, with ideas and enthusiasm to stand - but - because of their commitments and, quite often, lack of interest it's often left up to people like me to stand year after year until we have just had enough and then walk away.

We don't keep the clubs back in the dark ages though, most of the members I asked, when I last did the dress code, absolutely didn't want it changed. In fact, when the turtle neck shirts that Tiger and many pros started to wear 3 or 4 years ago came out, it was the 30 to 40 year olds that wanted them banned and us oldens fought off a quite ferocious battle to allow them as we realised visitors and societies would turn up wearing them and we didn't see that the club would benefit from banning them.

It does worry me that us older players get the blame for all golf club ills.

Chris

 

[USER1999]

Thing is, younger members could stand for the committee, but they won't get in. Why? Because no one knows them. At my club, the guys who get on play mixed golf. You need the support of the lady members, and the seniors. You need to play 7 ish days a week, and get to know more people. A young guy who plays only on Saturdays has no chance. He would need a five year strategy, and to give up work.

Golf clubs will continue to be run by the retired, the semi retired, and the self employed, who are willing to lose money. The job doesn't demand it, but the only way to get voted in is to put yourself about.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Thing is, younger members could stand for the committee, but they won't get in. Why? Because no one knows them. At my club, the guys who get on play mixed golf. You need the support of the lady members, and the seniors. You need to play 7 ish days a week, and get to know more people. A young guy who plays only on Saturdays has no chance. He would need a five year strategy, and to give up work.

Golf clubs will continue to be run by the retired, the semi retired, and the self employed, who are willing to lose money. The job doesn't demand it, but the only way to get voted in is to put yourself about.

Got to agree 100% with Murph here. We have serious communication isues at our club and I've done some extensive work to show the benefits of social networking, using e-mail, actually updating the website etc and was quite happy to offer my time and services to serve and get it off the ground. It would have been ideal too see if the course was open, on temps, tees booked for society/comp and for giving members up to the minute news as well as promoting social events (where we could make good money but never seem to get it quite right) and giving course updates etc.

I was told that the majority of our club don't use twitter, facebook or regularly look at e-mails from their own research. How stuck in their ways are our members. I think the 21st century has passed most of them by. It also comes down to Murphs other point and your face has to fit. If not you can be as keen as mustard, have some good ideas and never get to serve. If you can't get young blood onto the committee how can you bring fresh ideas like mine (ok it may not have been 100% feasible in its current context). I even showed them some of the electronic newsletters and table top bulletins some of you kindly forwarded to me when I asked a few months back.

We've had the AGM and the same faces get to stay where they are. Off the 9 places on various committees available the youngest person to be elected was in his late 40's and had been a member for over a decade. Can't see anything changing there very soon.

 

[GB72]

Have to agree with Murph and Homer. My club has a core of long time members who all know each other and are stuck in their ways. They like things as they are as it suits them and see no need for change. They all vote each other in for the various positions and nothing changes and the membership are not ballotted on anything throughout the year nor are opinions sought outside of the ruling group. I have tried to explain how difficult it is for new members to integrate and put forward a number of suggestions but nothing is ever taken forward. We have some mad situations. Take the clubhouse, the club want higher takings but you can get a better and cheaper bacon roll in the half way hut that is run independently. You have people queuing on the first tee every morning but you cannot pop into the club house and get a coffee in a takeaway cup to drink whilst you are up there. There are no roll ups and all comps are in your own groups so no real way to integrate. It has taken me 4 years just to get to know enough people to guarantee a game at the weekend.

I am now starting to get a little concerned over member levels. Last year we were down about 80 on a maximum membership of about 550 and we had to take the drastic step of putting a sign up to attract members (advanced marketing there). This year we have adds in the local paper, which is totally unheard of. a couple of groups that used to be in the club at 8.00 every weekend and were my back up option if I did not have a game have just disappeared.

What we have is a chicken and egg situation. To instigate change we need an influx of fresh blood via new members but we are not going to get those new members unless we instigate change.

 

[Hobbit]

Thing is, younger members could stand for the committee, but they won't get in. Why? Because no one knows them. At my club, the guys who get on play mixed golf. You need the support of the lady members, and the seniors. You need to play 7 ish days a week, and get to know more people. A young guy who plays only on Saturdays has no chance. He would need a five year strategy, and to give up work.

Golf clubs will continue to be run by the retired, the semi retired, and the self employed, who are willing to lose money. The job doesn't demand it, but the only way to get voted in is to put yourself about.

Over half our committee work full time away from the golf club, and over half the committee are between 45 & 53, i.e. well below the average age of the members. And bearing in mind how many ladies play I'm not quite sure why you'd need their vote to carry the day. And if the average age of the club is 60 I guess that means that the seniors aren't exactly a sginificant majority.

And yes someone has to be seen to be good enough before anyone would vote for them but hey, if someone wants it they've got to work for it. Why would someone cast their vote for an unknown quantity?

From my experience of recent AGM's the majority of younger members don't turn up anyway. Younger members talk of change but what effort do they put in to achieve it?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And yes someone has to be seen to be good enough before anyone would vote for them but hey, if someone wants it they've got to work for it. Why would someone cast their vote for an unknown quantity?

From my experience of recent AGM's the majority of younger members don't turn up anyway. Younger members talk of change but what effort do they put in to achieve it?

Sorry but I disagree. I wanted to stand and help with the communications side of things. The 2010 captain was up for it and the new one seems to like things as they are and is looking for a quiet tenure. Of those that put themselves up for nomination apart from myself (12 years membership over 2 spells and 45) were two guys in their late 30's who play every weekend and most midweek comps and are well known faces around the place. We were all there at the AGM as were a lot of the younger end of the scale. Granted a lot of the 20 somethings weren't but how realistic is it to get them to attend at any club