I Know it is Tradition but it is Still Annoying

[Dodger]

All clubs should issue job descriptions to committee members outlining what should be expected of them and support it with a club mission statement.

If the prospective new committee members isn't willing to sign the job description then you don't need them.....if he does sign but makes a decision that looks like it is for his own good then you refer him back to the mission statement.

Too many are in it for their own self gratification....

Can I ask if any of the forumers would not sign a job description/mission statement document if they were about to embark on a role within a club committee?

 

[NWJocko]

Most clubs have a qualifying period to stand for committee, ours is 3 full years, this is so that you have gained some better knowledge of the workings of the club and also proved that you are a good member. So your 18 months wouldn't be enough for most clubs.

Chris

I find that quite interesting chris, and possibly a bit silly.

With a more transient membership (arguably) than in years past, there is the possibility that new members who have moved from other clubs could add real value on a committee in terms of providing a different perspective, perhaps using their experience of what did and didn't work at their previous club and why.

Is there a definition of a "good" member? This, and the 3 years, is what my view of not being open to change is about. I don't mean someone coming in and attempting to change the whole direction or ethos of a particular club, it's about club's embracing new, fresh points of view.

Having a 3 year stipulation seems to say that the committee won't trust anyone until they have enough time to suss them out.

 

[NWJocko]

Can I ask if any of the forumers would not sign a job description/mission statement document if they were about to embark on a role within a club committee?

I have pretty much zero experience Dodger but I'm amazed they are not in place already.

Clubs are pretty much a type of business. In my line of business, every committee that I am a voting member of has terms of reference, roles and responsibilities etc that everyone has to sign up to for Corporate governance.

I think it only makes sense. The only downside I can see is that it might put more people off......

I would sign up to it though.

 

[Monty_Brown]

Most clubs have a qualifying period to stand for committee, ours is 3 full years, this is so that you have gained some better knowledge of the workings of the club
Chris

Or been indoctrinated with their way of thinking

The daft thing is that these supposed old codgers were all young once and some probably had ideas about how to change things back in the day. A 50-something now grew up in the 60s and 70s so is probably not averse to the odd radical idea. What they may well have seen is people try and fail to implement them and so are now reluctant to try again.

The real shame is if people don't try to change. As a wise man (well, Tommo ) said further up this thread, you don't need to be young to be forward thinking. In fact all you need to do is be prepared to listen to the people with ideas and have the willing to give things a try.

 

[MadAdey]

Most clubs have a qualifying period to stand for committee, ours is 3 full years, this is so that you have gained some better knowledge of the workings of the club and also proved that you are a good member. So your 18 months wouldn't be enough for most clubs.

Chris

I am not saying that I would be allowed to run for the committee I was just saying that the way to get voted on is to put yourself out more to get to know people in the club not just your usual 4-ball plus a couple of others. I am sort of sat on the fence with this issue that has reared it's ugly head regarding committee's. I would love to see young people on my committee, as a 25 year old compared to a 50 year old, will more often than not have a different and more modern look on issues with the club. Problem is to get in you need the votes. To get the votes you to know the older members in the club and make them realize you are not just gonna turn the club into the local municipal, with people p@@@@@d in the clubhouse wearing jeans and trainers.

I do agree with what you and hobbit have said regarding people that just moan about the club but never do anything about it. They should look at going on the committee and help to make the changes. But then you do not need those types on the committee that just want to change the one thing that annoys them like you said. But does that idea that I saw trying to be implemented with younger members at a previous club I was at not look like a good idea to you? At my current club it is difficult to get on the committee as there is over 700 members at the club so a lot of people interested in being part of it, we are lucky like that.

 

[chrisd]

Or been indoctrinated with their way of thinking

The daft thing is that these supposed old codgers were all young once and some probably had ideas about how to change things back in the day. A 50-something now grew up in the 60s and 70s so is probably not averse to the odd radical idea. What they may well have seen is people try and fail to implement them and so are now reluctant to try again.

The real shame is if people don't try to change. As a wise man (well, Tommo ) said further up this thread, you don't need to be young to be forward thinking. In fact all you need to do is be prepared to listen to the people with ideas and have the willing to give things a try.

The difficulty on committee is that you are trying to please a hugely diverse number of people. What a 20 year old thinks is great, a lady member may not and what the vets section sees as necessary the under 60's wouldnt countenance. It's really often a balancing act and there are also vested interests at play. I would like to think that even at my age I was open to any suggestion from anyone and if I didn't see a problem with it I would raise the matter at committee. Most of the others would do the same, it is more often that the members wont change so the committees only run the day to day matters of the club.


Chris

 

[MadAdey]

I think it is just that people see the committee as some kind of Mafia that will not change anything unless it benefits them. This is the most perfect example of it.

My club has quite a good social aspect to it and hold themed dining nights at the club which includes a fantastic meal plus entertainment, either a singer or a comedian. I would love to go to one like other members would. The list goes up on the clubhouse wall on a Tuesday morning normally, which seeing as all the seniors go out early morning pop into the clubhouse first thing and take all the places up booking places for others that are not there. So later in the day when people like myself go to the club it is normally too late to get a place. I work so I can't get up early enough in the morning as I am either at work or did not get in until 3 in the morning. This apparently has been brought up at committee meetings but the committee are not willing to change this system as surprise surprise it is them who are doing it.

 

[chrisd]

But does that idea that I saw trying to be implemented with younger members at a previous club I was at not look like a good idea to you? At my current club it is difficult to get on the committee as there is over 700 members at the club so a lot of people interested in being part of it, we are lucky like that.

I think that its a brilliant idea if it would work but I would think that "stick in the mud" clubs will ignore the ideas if they are minded to do so. It would be much better to get some of these guys on the main committee so that they can deal face to face with the "old boys". We have 600 + members but there are times that election to committee is under subscribed


Chris

 

[USER1999]

All the social events at my club are over subscribed, and yes, similar to other clubs it is the same people who go to them. But then they support the club, so why should they not be looked after? Put the sheet up at a different time, maybe they can't then go, and some newbies get on the list. Fine if they keep going to the social events, but if it is just a one off, and the normal crowd get the hump, and don't now support them, then it dies. Why chance it, when at the moment, these events are rammed.

Me, I'd like to go to the Christmas one, or may be new year. But I would not go to any others, so I don't really feel I should be trying to put my name down, as others who have supported the club through the year should in my view get first dibs.

 

[MadAdey]

I think that its a brilliant idea if it would work but I would think that "stick in the mud" clubs will ignore the ideas if they are minded to do so. It would be much better to get some of these guys on the main committee so that they can deal face to face with the "old boys". We have 600 + members but there are times that election to committee is under subscribed


Chris

Like I said before it is difficult to get them on the committee and this would be a good way of getting them on it. They could prove themselves to the older members that they do have good ideas to take the club forward and would hopefully help them to get votes in the future. I you had this idea then the committee would have to start listening eventually though, as they would get shown up for what they are if they were dismissive towards new ideas.

I do love being part of a 100 year old golf club with traditions, but I just feel that some of the old ways need bringing up to date a bit more. There are clubs out there struggling for members as people are struggling for money. Thankfully my club is not suffering too much. But saying that it was only a few years ago that you had a 5 year waiting list now you can join on the spot. Some people are put off joining one of the old school clubs and lean towards the new ones as they tend to have more relaxed rules at the club.

 

[MadAdey]

All the social events at my club are over subscribed, and yes, similar to other clubs it is the same people who go to them. But then they support the club, so why should they not be looked after? Put the sheet up at a different time, maybe they can't then go, and some newbies get on the list. Fine if they keep going to the social events, but if it is just a one off, and the normal crowd get the hump, and don't now support them, then it dies. Why chance it, when at the moment, these events are rammed.

Me, I'd like to go to the Christmas one, or may be new year. But I would not go to any others, so I don't really feel I should be trying to put my name down, as others who have supported the club through the year should in my view get first dibs.

It would be nice for the list to go up later in the day to give others a chance to put their names down. The old boys would also get a chance to put their names down just maybe not all of the same people every time. I am sure they would not get the hump over it. How could they it is a members club so everyone should have the opportunity to support the club.

 

[Dodger]

I have pretty much zero experience Dodger but I'm amazed they are not in place already.

Clubs are pretty much a type of business. In my line of business, every committee that I am a voting member of has terms of reference, roles and responsibilities etc that everyone has to sign up to for Corporate governance.

I think it only makes sense. The only downside I can see is that it might put more people off......

I would sign up to it though.

Encouraging to hear.

Is the lack or reply to my question down to fear? Are people scared to say no they would not sign?

As for putting people off....if they are unwilling to sign then these people are not the ones you need on your committee.

It's a shame more people have not taken time to express their opinions to my question though......

 

[bladeplayer]

Can I ask if any of the forumers would not sign a job description/mission statement document if they were about to embark on a role within a club committee?

Been honest Al i dont know what a mission statement is but i would have no problem signing a job description ,

 

[Hobbit]

I hear exactly what you are saying about young people being in the pub in their spare time, but that is probably not a vast majority of those 20/30 somethings that would like to be involved and have say at committee meetings. The ones that would like to be involved are the ones that are not down the pub every night. They are at home looking after other commitments that they have with work and family matters. I would love to put myself forward for nomination at my club. Even though I have only been a member for 18 months I have got to know a lot of the members including the committee and often stand chatting in the bar them, so I would have a chance of getting voted in. My problem is being in the armed forces. This year I have been away for nearly 6 months of it so would not be much use to a committee as it is hard to attend meetings when I'm the other side of the world.

We can argue until we are blue in the face about this but you saying that younger members would prefer to be in the pub rather than on the committee, is as bad as me saying that committee's are full of retired old narrow minded men that do not like change and run it like the Mafia. I know that is wrong in most cases just like saying young people are all sat in the pub claiming not to have the time is.

So should I resign from the committee because I go down the pub a night or two a week? That's the Secretary, no1, no2 & no3 on Handicaps, the Treasurer & no2 on Greens. And we also go down the club too, although on occasion it can be unwelcoming late of an evening when the bar room lawyers have had a few beers.

I specifically say some not all, "I don't doubt some have commitments," and I could have also added that there are a number of older members in the pub too. Also, I don't have a problem with anyone choosing to whatever lifestyle they want. I disagree with your comment about those that are down the pub are the ones we don't want - we've 'snared' one of them recently and he's saved us £11k in the last month. I was making the point that they have time but choose other things.

You're right, we could split hairs on this forever and a day, though I'm not quite sure anymore what we're splitting hairs about.

 

[MadAdey]

Encouraging to hear.

Is the lack or reply to my question down to fear? Are people scared to say no they would not sign?

As for putting people off....if they are unwilling to sign then these people are not the ones you need on your committee.

It's a shame more people have not taken time to express their opinions to my question though......

I did not realize this needed a reply to be honest. I would have thought it would be standard issue for anyone on a committee to have a guideline as to what they are expected to do in the position they hold. If you do not then boring mundane things will not get done as no one will take responsibility for them. If you want to be on the committee you should made to sign them or resign your position as anyone not wanting to sign them to me is just going to try and avoid what they are responsible for in their position.

 

[Snelly]

Encouraging to hear.

Is the lack or reply to my question down to fear? Are people scared to say no they would not sign?

As for putting people off....if they are unwilling to sign then these people are not the ones you need on your committee.

It's a shame more people have not taken time to express their opinions to my question though......

I would happily sign anything if I agreed with the content and I wouldn't if not.

That said, I am generally not very good with committees as they often compromise and inevitably, that means the guy who was right (i.e. me) hasn't got his way. This can be a very frustrating process. The RFU, FIFA, the IOC and the FA are run by committee. Not exactly a blueprint for success I would argue.

I am better at benign, benevolent dictatorships really....

Cheers,


Snelly.

 

[harvey4banger]

Love playing Hayling Island GC, but when it comes to old duffers and rules, this is the place. A member grassed me up to the pro last time, for not having wide enough wheels on my trolley, Clicgear, go figure. Here are some of their club house rules, love that you can wear open leather sandles in the Solent bar, think thats where all the hip and trendy golfers hang out

[h=4]The Clubhouse[/h]

• Players are requested to freshen up before using the Clubhouse. Golfing dress as defined above is permitted in the Clubhouse provided it is dry, clean and tidy. Golfing rainwear or outdoor clothing is not acceptable in the bar and restaurant areas.
• Within the Clubhouse, ‘closed’ shoes are to be worn at all times. Trainers and flip flops are not allowed. Appropriate footwear may be worn without socks in the bar areas. Golf shoes should not be worn on the balcony, and are only permitted in the Professional Shop or locker rooms.
• Hats and blue denim jeans are not allowed in the Clubhouse.

[h=4]Sandeman Bar and Restaurant[/h]

• Smart casual wear, including golf attire, is acceptable.
• Tailored shorts may be worn up to 1900.

[h=4]Solent Bar[/h]

• Clean and tidy casual/golf attire is acceptable.
• Footwear must be worn at all times, but trainers are not allowed. Open leather sandals may be worn in the Solent Bar during British Summer Time.

 

[Dodger]

Been honest Al i dont know what a mission statement is but i would have no problem signing a job description ,

Bill,

A mission statement is a statement of the purpose of the Club. The mission statement should guide the actions of the organization, spell out its overall goal, provide a path, and guide decision-making. It provides the framework or context within which the clubs strategies are formulated.

Every club should have one to work within.I am busy creating mine at the moment.

If a decision is made that splits the camp and it is obviously a decision that is odds with the clubs traditions or goals then committee members should be referred back to the mission statement to remind them of the path the club is supposed to follow.

 

[MadAdey]

So should I resign from the committee because I go down the pub a night or two a week? That's the Secretary, no1, no2 & no3 on Handicaps, the Treasurer & no2 on Greens. And we also go down the club too, although on occasion it can be unwelcoming late of an evening when the bar room lawyers have had a few beers.

I specifically say some not all, "I don't doubt some have commitments," and I could have also added that there are a number of older members in the pub too. Also, I don't have a problem with anyone choosing to whatever lifestyle they want. I disagree with your comment about those that are down the pub are the ones we don't want - we've 'snared' one of them recently and he's saved us £11k in the last month. I was making the point that they have time but choose other things.

You're right, we could split hairs on this forever and a day, though I'm not quite sure anymore what we're splitting hairs about.

I think we sort of agree to disagree on this......... I did not mean that the ones in the pub are not wanted by the club, that has been misunderstood. You said that you see younger members in the pub that do not put themselves forward for the committee. So regarding them they are not going to maybe commit like you would need as their mates in the pub would probably come first.

We both agree on some things though that at some clubs there are people on committee's doing things for their own benefit. Younger people should put more effort into getting on the committee if they want to modernize their clubs approach. Stop moaning in the clubhouse and put yourself forward as they will find out it is not as easy as they think on the committee at times.

 

[bladeplayer]

Bill,

A mission statement is a statement of the purpose of the Club. The mission statement should guide the actions of the organization, spell out its overall goal, provide a path, and guide decision-making. It provides the framework or context within which the clubs strategies are formulated.

Every club should have one to work within.I am busy creating mine at the moment.

If a decision is made that splits the camp and it is obviously a decision that is odds with the clubs traditions or goals then committee members should be referred back to the mission statement to remind them of the path the club is supposed to follow.

Thanks mate , no problem as it seem a good idea to me any how