I had a lesson today and...

[Kennysarmy]

I'm not a regular lesson taker, but as I've not played much recently due to the weather and it's looking like temps for a few days yet, decided to book 45mins with our assistant in the GCquad studio. He has two vital attributes as a coach - he's cheap and he's available...
My plan was to just check grip, alignment, stance etc to try and ensure that I was at least giving myself the best chance before starting the swing.
We looked at that (mostly OK) and then looked at basic iron swing to check how it looked.
I've always whipped it a little inside, and he spotted that and a shift/sway off the ball rather than a more balanced turn. Worked on tidying it up, which seemed to work.
I enjoyed it. It was nice to chat about golf with someone who was being paid to listen(!). The stuff he spotted was all basic stuff, and maybe I could have worked it out myself, but probably not. I'm thinking of popping back in a month or so once I've actually played some golf to see how it looks.

Everyone swings differently, coming back a little on the inside suits loads of golfers, even PGA Tour Pros!

I personally don't see much benefit in looking at a static position like the stance as a single entity - everything in the swing works together, I'd really not care if I stood a bit closed with a strong grip if I could play great golf.

 

[pendodave]

Everyone starts somewhere? It was a young pro, afaiu

Exactly so. He's a young lad still doing his qualifications.
But although it was a tongue in cheek remark about his virtues, there's nothing worse than not being able to get a lesson when it suits. I'm under no illusions that I need Butch Harmon to pass a beady eye over me - most choppers have a cornicopium of vices that can easily be addressed by their local assistant.

 

[pendodave]

Everyone swings differently, coming back a little on the inside suits loads of golfers, even PGA Tour Pros!

I personally don't see much benefit in looking at a static position like the stance as a single entity - everything in the swing works together, I'd really not care if I stood a bit closed with a strong grip if I could play great golf.

Haha. If I could play great golf, I wouldn't have been standing there on a Monday afternoon!
Seriously though, I think that basic set-up is pretty important. Pros are fastidious about it. Most ams are not. I play with a guy who habitually lines up 20deg right of target. If it's not a comp and he's hit a shocker I sometimes mention it to him. I really don't think he knows he does it. I just wanted to make sure that I was giving myself the best chance before even starting my swing.
Same for the grip, I realise that you can play with an odd one, but most good players don't, and those that do probably know what they're doing. I didn't want to think mine was neutral when it's actually either very weak/strong.
As an aside, many ams' putting/chipping setup is often just as poor. Not that I spent any time on that, I'll wait until its a bit warmer.

 

[Orikoru]

Haha. If I could play great golf, I wouldn't have been standing there on a Monday afternoon!
Seriously though, I think that basic set-up is pretty important. Pros are fastidious about it. Most ams are not. I play with a guy who habitually lines up 20deg right of target. If it's not a comp and he's hit a shocker I sometimes mention it to him. I really don't think he knows he does it. I just wanted to make sure that I was giving myself the best chance before even starting my swing.
Same for the grip, I realise that you can play with an odd one, but most good players don't, and those that do probably know what they're doing. I didn't want to think mine was neutral when it's actually either very weak/strong.
As an aside, many ams' putting/chipping setup is often just as poor. Not that I spent any time on that, I'll wait until its a bit warmer.

It's easily done, without realising. Most typical for me, and my 11 handicap mate that I play with does this as well, is aiming left with driver. We hit fades, so you aim left to allow for it, then you hit a few slices so you think 'I'd better aim further left' - so you do, but then you also swing right to left and make the slice even worse. Before you know it you're aiming at the left trees, and of course you close the face and pull one straight at them. Now I'm sort of manually dragging my right foot back at address so it closes my body a little, and brings my alignment back to somewhere sensible. Set-up is definitely vital, if you're an inch too close or too far from the ball it completely changes what your swing has to do, let alone if you're open or closed to the target line.

 

[Neilds]

It's easily done, without realising. Most typical for me, and my 11 handicap mate that I play with does this as well, is aiming left with driver. We hit fades, so you aim left to allow for it, then you hit a few slices so you think 'I'd better aim further left' - so you do, but then you also swing right to left and make the slice even worse. Before you know it you're aiming at the left trees, and of course you close the face and pull one straight at them. Now I'm sort of manually dragging my right foot back at address so it closes my body a little, and brings my alignment back to somewhere sensible. Set-up is definitely vital, if you're an inch too close or too far from the ball it completely changes what your swing has to do, let alone if you're open or closed to the target line.

I used to do something similar on one of our holes. You only need a long iron or hybrid off the tee as there is a ditch at driver length with a lot off run off into the ditch. I was good at hooking my hybrid into the left trees so I aimed my feet right, same result. this continued for a good few rounds with me aiming my feet further and further right but still hooking it into the trees. i then realised that I was keeping my clubface pointing squarely down the fairway!

 

[Orikoru]

I used to do something similar on one of our holes. You only need a long iron or hybrid off the tee as there is a ditch at driver length with a lot off run off into the ditch. I was good at hooking my hybrid into the left trees so I aimed my feet right, same result. this continued for a good few rounds with me aiming my feet further and further right but still hooking it into the trees. i then realised that I was keeping my clubface pointing squarely down the fairway!

Yeah.. I think this is why the pros usually put the club down first and then take their set-up around it.

 

[MACM85]

Had a follow up lesson last night with Lewis Sparrow at Precision golf. This was my third session and we have somehow managed to get my path to be over the top to getting it to a neutral path. This has resulted in rather than fade/slice I am now drawing the ball and seeing the left hand side of the course. Which is a very different place to be.

After last nights lesson we are working on getting a bigger hip turn and unload through the ball to get more out of the clubs in my hands. This will be the homework over the next 6 or so weeks to see how it goes.

 

[Springveldt]

Had a lesson last night (2nd one of the 4 I bought months ago) and we worked on a few different things.

First was alignment because even with the line on the hitting mat I was still pointing right with my feet and my hips. I just need to feel that I drop my lead foot back a touch which helped.

Next was my club face at address. Again what I thought was square was actually slightly open (and I was consistently leaving the face between 2-3 degrees open to path at impact, mostly closer to 3). We did this by turning the toe in, at first we went to an extreme which got me having the face -3 to -5 to path and then relaxed it a bit. It still looks closed to me but I looked in the mirror at address (we have big mirrors for face on and down the line) and in the mirror it looks perfectly square, stupid eyes and brain.

The final thing was my takeaway, I was picking the club up too quickly. Simple drill with another ball maybe 6-8 inches behind and making sure I roll that ball away on takeaway. Also had to slow my takeaway down as the first few I did I rolled the ball back about 10 foot into the Trackman. Hit some really good shots at the end, face was consistent between -1 and 1 to path, path was usually no more than 2 degrees either way. The slow and low takeaway also seemed to help with the chunks I suffer from which was also a bonus.

 

[Orikoru]

Had a lesson last night (2nd one of the 4 I bought months ago) and we worked on a few different things.

First was alignment because even with the line on the hitting mat I was still pointing right with my feet and my hips. I just need to feel that I drop my lead foot back a touch which helped.

Next was my club face at address. Again what I thought was square was actually slightly open (and I was consistently leaving the face between 2-3 degrees open to path at impact, mostly closer to 3). We did this by turning the toe in, at first we went to an extreme which got me having the face -3 to -5 to path and then relaxed it a bit. It still looks closed to me but I looked in the mirror at address (we have big mirrors for face on and down the line) and in the mirror it looks perfectly square, stupid eyes and brain.

The final thing was my takeaway, I was picking the club up too quickly. Simple drill with another ball maybe 6-8 inches behind and making sure I roll that ball away on takeaway. Also had to slow my takeaway down as the first few I did I rolled the ball back about 10 foot into the Trackman. Hit some really good shots at the end, face was consistent between -1 and 1 to path, path was usually no more than 2 degrees either way. The slow and low takeaway also seemed to help with the chunks I suffer from which was also a bonus.

So you were aiming right of target, and also opening the club face to send it further right? How the hell were you playing off 3? Do you hit a big draw to bring it back?

 

[SteveW86]

So you were aiming right of target, and also opening the club face to send it further right? How the hell were you playing off 3? Do you hit a big draw to bring it back?

If his face was open to path I cant imagine many draws were hit.

I think this shows again the difference between feel and real. Where you think you are aiming isnt always correct.

 

[Imurg]

If his face was open to path I cant imagine many draws were hit.

I think this shows again the difference between feel and real. Where you think you are aiming isnt always correct.

I have to feel like I'm aiming 10 yards left to be on target...no idea why...dodgy eyes maybe...

 

[Springveldt]

So you were aiming right of target, and also opening the club face to send it further right? How the hell were you playing off 3? Do you hit a big draw to bring it back?

Aiming slightly right of target, swing path slightly left of target (over the top) and face slightly open to the path but closed to target. Most of the time a 5-10 yard fade with the odd face neutral so a pull. The face was usually only open by a couple of degrees to the path so even on a neutral swing path it was finishing within 10 yard right of the target. I was hitting an 8 iron so not like it had scope to go miles wide.

Fixing the alignment and closing the face a little at address also helped with the swing path for some reason, I think the furthest off neutral I swung was 3 left and 1 right.

As for how I'm off 3, your guess is as good as mine. Feel like I'm the worst under 3 handicap in the country sometimes.

 

[Springveldt]

If his face was open to path I cant imagine many draws were hit.

I think this shows again the difference between feel and real. Where you think you are aiming isnt always correct.

Correct, 2 draws all lesson and both on miss hits that came off the toe but the face was closed to path on both.

 

[Neilds]

If his face was open to path I cant imagine many draws were hit.

I think this shows again the difference between feel and real. Where you think you are aiming isnt always correct.

I used to line up with the clubface open but then hit a draw/pull - turns out I was regripping just before I started the backswing!

 

[Springveldt]

Another lesson last night, one more left in the 4 package I bought last year. I'm actually enjoying these and if the pro puts the same offer on at the start of the season I'll probably get them again.

He was asking how I played at the weekend and what my misses were. I played pretty decent, driving was good, ball striking was good but my miss was the usual pull left with the face neutral to path or catching it a bit heavy which goes straightish but 20 yards short. After a few warm up hits he said I don't keep my hip rotation going, I quite often stall and those cause the left miss. I was saying I'm always scared of that left miss so in my head rotating hard left is going to make it worse. Turns out it doesn't and actually helps.

We did a drill with the Callaway Chipstix attached to my club, just going back to 9 through to 3 but making sure that that the stick doesn't hit my left side and making sure it's not like a cricket swing where I push my hands and arms away from the body to stop the stick hitting me. It felt really hard for me to get that left side out the way, like I was really snapping my hip back and around.

Later in the lesson after catching a few heavy we did another drill with me standing with my feet together but still trying to make a full swing. I was striking them beautiful, 80mph club speed, 105mph ball speed and smash factor finally over 1.3 with my 8 iron. On my full swings the good hits are usually in the 1.28 region. Was a bit of an eye opener, I commented that maybe I should actually play golf like that.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@Springveldt I was checking an old thread, confirming my memory was correct, and I know you've previously had lessons with David O'Brien at parklands. When my lad was younger he had a lesson with him, he was very involved in junior coaching at one point. I stood out of the way and watched and he used to do a similar drill, feet stood together. He recommended it as a go to if your ball striking wasn't going well on the course. He could hit a 7 iron like that better than I could drive the ball, it was soul destroying .

It's an interesting one to practice though. Sounds like a really good lesson

 

[evemccc]

@Springveldt I was checking an old thread, confirming my memory was correct, and I know you've previously had lessons with David O'Brien at parklands. When my lad was younger he had a lesson with him, he was very involved in junior coaching at one point. I stood out of the way and watched and he used to do a similar drill, feet stood together. He recommended it as a go to if your ball striking wasn't going well on the course. He could hit a 7 iron like that better than I could drive the ball, it was soul destroying .

It's an interesting one to practice though. Sounds like a really good lesson

Interesting drill @Lord Tyrion @Springveldt - it’s ‘for’ not fatting the ball, I gather, but how and why? I am interested in the theory behind why it works and what it’s trying to achieve / achieving?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Interesting drill @Lord Tyrion @Springveldt - it’s ‘for’ not fatting the ball, I gather, but how and why? I am interested in the theory behind why it works and what it’s trying to achieve / achieving?

I didn't realise that. I just liked the smooth tempo you got from it. You can't over swing because you will just lose your balance so it helps to swing smoothly. In my case, it also removes a mess of swing thoughts, simplifies things. I'm so busy trying not to overdo my balance that I don't get muddled up with other things that sometimes get in the way

In @Springveldt example it sounds like he was giving it full beans still but he's a better player than me so he can do this and not fall over .

 

[garyinderry]

Interesting drill @Lord Tyrion @Springveldt - it’s ‘for’ not fatting the ball, I gather, but how and why? I am interested in the theory behind why it works and what it’s trying to achieve / achieving?

If you sway off the ball you will fall over with the feet together.

Too much right side bend on the downswing you will also fall over with the feet together.

The drill just forces you to stay centered. Turn back then turn through keeping in balance.

Slowly widen out your stance till you have the same feel as the drill with your normal stance.

 

[Springveldt]

Interesting drill @Lord Tyrion @Springveldt - it’s ‘for’ not fatting the ball, I gather, but how and why? I am interested in the theory behind why it works and what it’s trying to achieve / achieving?

I was getting a bit unstable with my lower half, we took a video and my left knee was collapsing in toward my right leg. The pro said he would have used a football between my legs but someone had “removed” it from the studio.

So we went with the knees together but still in a golf stance with knees bent and weight even. I started flushing it and the pro said it was keeping me centred but it also slowed down my transition as I couldn’t yank the club over the top as it would throw me off balance.