Howard Webb,.... above his own station!!!!!?

[Foxholer]

I haven't read your links but what I was trying to say was not chip the ref/ linesmens authority away, but , where the finances/ technology allow, the authority could be shared. would this not help beat the cheats?

I don't quite understand what you mean, but if it's a case of using TV replays/5th Official to determine whether a foul or a dive, then it's likely to be unworkable unless play is stopped for the time it takes to determine - no small period - and, imo, the penalty for diving in those circumstances is a Red card!

Those links were regarding post match disciplinary action from video evidence - whether or not the Ref handled it during the game.

 

[clubchamp98]

Every time a ref makes an error we get this, I do wonder sometimes how many of you have tried it? I have, I'm a qualified ref, have been for a few years now. Now I'm a level 7 ref, only ref youth football, and although I think I do a decent job I know I'm not really a great referee. The guys like Webb when you compare them to me are worlds apart just like Clichy or Cole are worlds apart from me when I (used to) put on the shinpads and play as a left back. But world class fullbacks screw things up sometimes, and so do world class refs.


Before anyone says anything, no I didn't see the game (I was playing golf!) but from the link to the gif you can see how the mistake might come, with the challenge being read as a shoulder to shoulder followed by Suarez falling over.As he does on occasion. IF, that is, you're standing where Webb is, and seeing it all in real time rather than on an endless replay with 3 camera angles. It's a really bad error, definitely, and Webb will be angry with himself just like a keeper is when they let in a soft near-post goal. But some of the comments boys, seriously?


"The refereeing in the Premiership at the games I've been to has been pretty shocking to be honest."
"shocking ref, always has been"
"shocking decisions from a shocking ref. should not come as a surprise."
"Howard Webb is not competent enough to be a top level ref"


Really??? Come on gents, I've played and coached enough football to know that all of the pro players are really very very good, even if they're playing rubbish that day. I've played enough golf to know that every single tour pro is really very very good, even when they're missing cuts or choking. I bet most guys on here can say both of those too. But I've also reffed enough games that I know every PMGO ref is really very very good, even when they miss things. I go to watch live football regularly and since I qualified, I haven't shouted abuse at officials in anywhere near the same manner. Not because of wanting to stick together with other refs, but just because now I actually understand what I'm watching.


On the slightly different tangent of the rugby/respect thing, I and every other grassroots ref in the country would LOVE IT TO BITS if they clamped down on it. You'd only have to send Rooney or Terry off a couple of times for swearing at a ref before every kid and hungover sunday league player in the country got the message.

This is all wrong this has been a great day for Howard Webb Treat a little player like dog dirt just because he had the temerity to ask him why no foul was given did you see the look just because he put his hand on him shocking. Then gets his name all over the papers tomorrow perfect day! The technology is there to sort this sort of thing out but the refs don't want it because it shows how many big decisions they get wrong ,The thing is though that TV replays show they get them wrong anyway so they may as well use it to at least get the result right. I am a reds fan and do agree Suarez looked like a mummy falling out of a crypt but do you ever wonder why they do this as most footballers do if you cant get a pen for a tackle like that then you have to make it look good but it always looks like a sniper has shot them from the stands

 

[Oxfordcomma]

This is all wrong this has been a great day for Howard Webb Treat a little player like dog dirt just because he had the temerity to ask him why no foul was given did you see the look just because he put his hand on him shocking. Then gets his name all over the papers tomorrow perfect day! The technology is there to sort this sort of thing out but the refs don't want it because it shows how many big decisions they get wrong ,The thing is though that TV replays show they get them wrong anyway so they may as well use it to at least get the result right. I am a reds fan and do agree Suarez looked like a mummy falling out of a crypt but do you ever wonder why they do this as most footballers do if you cant get a pen for a tackle like that then you have to make it look good but it always looks like a sniper has shot them from the stands

Sorry, which bit is wrong again? I said it was a bad mistake but easy to see why it was made, and said that anyone who wants to have a bash at refs needs to give it a go themselves.

To answer the general point about replays, yup, they would make everything perfect. Maybe. Or perhaps quite often they'd be inconclusive, and like cricket it would be "on-field decision stands". But stuff that, I'm a football fan first and a junior ref second. If I wanted to watch three hour games with 60 minutes of playing time I'd be a fan of American Football. TV replays work well in stop-start games where there is likely to be a dead ball immediately after a contentious decision. Rugby only uses them for tries I think, and for our equivalent of that, we now have the general acceptance of goal-line technology. Beyond that - well, when would you stop play? What if there's a breakaway goal at the other end during the review? Or a bad tackle which needs a red? Or the fouled person complains so much in the meantime, he gets a second yellow?

 

[jp5]

Can't remember the last time I ended up on my head when someone made contact with me playing footie. So given the player, his previous cheating actions and the completely unnatural reaction, can understand Webb's decision completely.

He may be a decent player but he is a disgrace for the game.

Surprised (not really) that Skrtel on Cazorla hasn't been examined to the same degree.

Typical Liverpool fan behaviour.

 

[MegaSteve]

With regard the original question... Perhaps 'the look' is an indication of how he deals with 'customers' working his day time job...

Having said that... You don't touch officials and neither should yelling obscenities at them be deemed acceptable as seems to be the case nowadays... Once officialdom has dealt with the true scourge of the modern day game [all the touchy feely stuff in the penalty area] then perhaps the next task would be getting players to respect the game... Not just by wearing a worthless armband...


As for Mr Suarez... In modern terms he won a penalty[first incident]... In old terms he failed to get a penalty awarded[second incident]... In a week an all time great passed away I am getting more and more sick and tired with the attitude "he was entitled to go down to win a penalty".... If Tom Finney or any other player from his era had been awarded a penalty from a mere tap on the ankle they'd have held their heads in shame and embarrassment...

 

[brendy]

Liverpool didnt play to their full potential yesterday and in open play didnt do enough to beat Arsenal, plain and simple. Arsenals keeper played a blinder and the main talking point is Howard Webbs inability to spot a genuine foul being less than 10 yards from it.
Was Suarez fouled in the box, yes he was,
Was it dramatic, yes it was,
Was that necessary, probably not,
Does being dramatic lessen the fact that he was fouled plain and simple, no it doesnt, it was still a penalty which wasn't given.

The sooner technology is brought in, the better.

 

[MegaSteve]

The sooner technology is brought in, the better.

'Technology' fails when a 'human' is still required to make the final decision...

At a recent[ish] rugby match I attended despite play being held up whilst the officials reviewed an 'incident' several times over their final decision was still totally wrong...

 

[jp5]

Technology wouldn't be required if players weren't so keen to cheat their opponent at whatever cost. I am increasingly finding myself detesting the modern day values of football.

 

[Foxholer]

.... If Tom Finney or any other player from his era had been awarded a penalty from a mere tap on the ankle they'd have held their heads in shame and embarrassment...

I for one am rather glad that Football has changed even if there is cheating and needling going on - as there always was. I don't want to watch some sort of battle being played out by guys hacking each others ankles and legs, on a quagmire where you can't see any green, with a ball that has doubled or more in weight in the first half. That said, there were some players of real genius around then from both attacking and defending points of view.

Not sure whether it was the attitude of Sir Tom, who was just before my memory, but it's certainly the attitude if Sir Bobby Charlton, that you play the game according to the Rules and style of the time.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Some absolute tripe in this thread again as per usual when we get onto Suarez.

Fact is, that was as clear a penalty as you're every likely to see. It wasn't given and it cost Liverpool dearly.

Howard Webb either didn't see it, which mean's he was poorly positioned. Or, saw it and decided it wasn't a penalty. Or, saw it and based on Suarez's supposed history decided he's probably diving.

None of these reasons are good enough for the country's 'best referee' to not give that decision. But like others have said, nothing will happen, nothing will change. Unfortunately, it's just tough luck this time around. Webb needs some serious scrutiny from the powers that be. He's liable to make the nation a laughing stock if he refs like that at the World Cup.

 

[In_The_Rough]

Was a penalty yes. However there were things that Arsenal did not get given as well. The reaction from LS was laughable the arching of the back and twirls through the air were pathetic. Do LFC ever lose a match fair and square? there always seems to be some arguments over disallowed goals/penalties or such like. The nation is already a laughing stock with refs anyway so doubt even the poor Howard Webb will make much difference.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Was a penalty yes. However there were things that Arsenal did not get given as well. The reaction from LS was laughable the arching of the back and twirls through the air were pathetic. Do LFC ever lose a match fair and square? there always seems to be some arguments over disallowed goals/penalties or such like. The nation is already a laughing stock with refs anyway so doubt even the poor Howard Webb will make much difference.

Yes Liverpool have lost matches this year fairly. However in the "big" matches against Chelsea away (Webb again), City away and Arsenal (away) yesterday we have by far and away been on the worst end of refereeing decisions. The main hullabaloo was by the press, echoed by Liverpool fans, and lots of neutral fans/journalists and non LFC ex-players have also said the same. Blame moaning LFC fans all you like, but when most of the neutrals are also saying the same, look at your own agenda first. Suarez's histrionics are laughable and poor - doesn't mean it wasn't a penalty from less than 10 yards away, and with the best view in the house. I don't know what LFC's losing percentage is, but 8 losses out of 8 for our last 8 matches from Webb. You don't need to be a mathematician to work out the differences in probabilities.

 

[Foxholer]

I don't know what LFC's losing percentage is, but 8 losses out of 8 for our last 8 matches from Webb. You don't need to be a mathematician to work out the differences in probabilities.

So are you saying Webb's a cheat?

Or that Liverpool are slow learners!

 

[Stuey01]

Far and away the worst end of refereeing decisions?

Not sure about that one. Yes it should have been a penalty. But there were a couple of decent penalty shouts waved away for Arsenal, Gerard should have been off for a second yellow, and Sterling laying hands on the ref could easily have been sent off.

So it seems to me that there were decisions going for and against both sides.

 

[Cheifi0]

Is it just me or did anyone else just seen this idiot look at Sterlings hand like he had left dog muck on his shirt.

Now before you ask I support united, but webb needs to get back on a level since reffing the world cup games he is way above his own station.

What a spanner, does himself no favours

I can't stand a lot of the referees in the Premier League. Always feels like they are putting on a show and that they are the centre of attention, always making exaggerated facial expressions and dramatic hand and arm movements. The less we notice them the better they are.

 

[Liverbirdie]

So are you saying Webb's a cheat?

Or that Liverpool are slow learners!

I don't see what we can learn when a team with a 1 in 7 or 8 losing rate (I'm guessing) loses 8 out of 8 with Webb as the referee, with lots of spurious decisions against you in there. Points more towards the former.

Far and away the worst end of refereeing decisions?

Not sure about that one. Yes it should have been a penalty. But there were a couple of decent penalty shouts waved away for Arsenal, Gerard should have been off for a second yellow, and Sterling laying hands on the ref could easily have been sent off.

So it seems to me that there were decisions going for and against both sides.

I'll be totally honest and say that I missed the first half (due to garyinderry driving a ball like a 24 h/capper in the last 4 holes, and driving like miss daisy afterwards), so bookings/accumulation of fouls/sending offs etc I can't fully comment on. Nailed on penalty - yes, Agger punched in the head nailed on penalty yes, Cazorla/Skrtel - Cazorla followed onto Skrtel, but if we had received 3 pens, I couldn't have moaned about that one. The "far and away on the receiving end" was aimed at all 3 games, not just yesterday's.

 

[USER1999]

Agger and fabianski went for the same ball. They were both entitled to attack it. Can't see why any one would think that was a penalty.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Agger and fabianski went for the same ball. They were both entitled to attack it. Can't see why any one would think that was a penalty.

Fabianski punched Agger on the side of the head, Agger got the ball. To be fair you could put this alongside the Cazorla/Skrtel one as very similar. There are no excuses for the 2nd Suarez one though. I've not seen Arsenal players so relieved at the end of a match in the recent past. The one thing I will take this season, no matter where we finish, is the entertainment value we have provided. It is not only down to our fantastic attack, but our woeful defending also. Seeing City muller people is one form of entertainment, but I think most of our games have been great to watch from a neutral perspective.

 

[MegaSteve]

Not sure whether it was the attitude of Sir Tom, who was just before my memory, but it's certainly the attitude if Sir Bobby Charlton, that you play the game according to the Rules and style of the time.

In all sincerity can't really see Sir Bobby advocating going to ground at the merest touch to 'win a penalty'.... Or shirt tugging in the box just because that's what everyone else does...

 

[jp5]

I don't see what we can learn when a team with a 1 in 7 or 8 losing rate (I'm guessing) loses 8 out of 8 with Webb as the referee, with lots of spurious decisions against you in there. Points more towards the former.

Webb (rightly or wrongly) is regarded as a top referee, so will take charge of the higher profile matches, which Liverpool are more likely to lose. Huge skewing on your stats, and there were decisions for and against both teams yesterday. Whilst the Suarez/Chamberlain clash was a pen, Pool lucky not to have finished with 9 men and conceded a couple of pens themselves.