How far do you hit your PW?

[Hobbit]

Manufacturers have been chasing game improvement since the beginning of the game, and 99.99% of people have welcomed it. The authorities have limited some aspects of it but has it harmed the amateur game? Teacups and mountainous waves spring to mind.

 

[AdamC28]

45 degrees and goes 115.
Wouldn’t want to go any lower in loft than that to be honest.

 

[Curls]

I need to hit the gym or something you boys are animals

 

[Crow]

You were the one that called me out in the first post and now you don’t like it ?
I didn't say that I didn't like it at all, I merely pointed out the fact that you said that it was an issue that doesn't bother you and yet you've made umpteen posts about it.
It was supposed to be “club golfers “
I guessed that.

Principles ? Fundamentals of the game ? What are they - are they written down somewhere ?
Rules, etiquette, equipment conformity, etc. Surprised you have to ask. These things are the basics which enable us to play the game, and the pertinent part I had in mind was the limiting of distance gains by technology so that courses don't become redundant.

How on Earth will the game be “destroyed”
Perhaps an overly dramatic word but without tech limits on ball and driver all older courses would be obsolete by now, cost to build new ones or extend old ones would be too great and unsustainable.

Yes clubs are being made easier to hit - helps bring New people into the game and without those new people the game will just disappear- and if the clubs are easier to hit why isn’t the average handicap coming down ?
Indeed, the game is really thriving at the moment with all these club advances isn't it.
I'd like to see what proof you have that GI clubs bring new people into the game, new people know nothing of club tech and will hit what they're given. Golf's biggest boom time was in the 1970s when blades were pretty much everywhere and titanium drivers were a far off glint in some designers eye.
The average handicap isn't coming down for many reasons as you well know, and we'll all have our own favourites. For me perhaps the biggest is green speeds, the greenkeeper's defence against greens being attacked with short irons that were designed to be attacked with mid/long irons.

Swing of lesser quality - what’s that supposed to mean ? Again the idea is to get the ball in the hole - there is no “perfect “ way. People just want to go out and play the game and enjoy themselves and at times do well
Modern club tech is designed to help on mishits, if a player can get their usual distance or accuracy with a mishit then they're not going to practice as much to find the middle of the club, ie their swing will be of a lesser quality.
Yes the idea is to get the ball in the hole and I don't care what you or anybody else chooses to use, if you read my first post you'll see that I was just showing my surprise that 38 degrees had arrived for a pitching wedge and that Titleist had been the manufacturer to do it.
I agree that people just want to go out and enjoy themselves but I don't think misnaming clubs is the way to achieve that. Yes I have a bit of a band wagon for blades and old woods but that's partly because so many golfers have been brain-washed into thinking that these are relics of the past and they're impossible to hit.

The accusations towards golf struggling is that at times it shows itself to be snobbish , boring and stuck in the past - imagine that ?

I might be mistaken but you seem to be inferring that my views are snobbish, boring and stuck in the past and are one of the reasons golf is struggling, nice one.
I merely offer an alternative point of view, painfully aware that it will be ignored and derided by the majority of distance/GI hungry golfers of today.

 

[Crow]

Manufacturers have been chasing game improvement since the beginning of the game, and 99.99% of people have welcomed it. The authorities have limited some aspects of it but has it harmed the amateur game? Teacups and mountainous waves spring to mind.

What club do you use for your second shot on a 400 yard par 4? No, let me rephrase that, what distance do you have left on for your second shot on a 400 yard par 4?
How often do you find yourself reaching par fives in two shots?

It's a matter of opinion as to whether it's harmed the game or not, I believe it has.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

What club do you use for your second shot on a 400 yard par 4? No, let me rephrase that, what distance do you have left on for your second shot on a 400 yard par 4?
How often do you find yourself reaching par fives in two shots?

It's a matter of opinion as to whether it's harmed the game or not, I believe it has.

Somewhere between 100 and 150 yards.
I can reach most par 5’s in 2.

That’s is because I’ve learnt to hit the middle of the club and can generate good club head speed.

Top pros like Jack Nicklaus & Greg Norman have been hitting long distances for years. When Jack drove 18 at St Andrews he used a persimmon driver.

It isn’t always the club or ball’s fault.

 

[jim8flog]

I need to hit the gym or something you boys are animals

I prefer to hit the bottle and choose the club in my bag that goes the required distance.

 

[USER1999]

Crossfield, and others (choose your favourite vlogger here), have looked at the relationship between loft and distance, and the two are pretty much paired together. The concept that modern peripheral weighted game improvement clubs need stronger lofts to prevent ballooning has pretty much been proved to be untrue. Lower loft clubs go further, irrespective of head design.

 

[Crow]

Somewhere between 100 and 150 yards.
I can reach most par 5’s in 2.

That’s is because I’ve learnt to hit the middle of the club and can generate good club head speed.

Top pros like Jack Nicklaus & Greg Norman have been hitting long distances for years. When Jack drove 18 at St Andrews he used a persimmon driver.

It isn’t always the club or ball’s fault.

I rest my case.

 

[clubchamp98]

The heart beat of the game is us club pro’s - why on earth would the governing bodies want to impose any restrictions on club development when at the heart of that development is trying to make the game more appealing and the clubs easier for us all to hit - what exactly would imposing restrictions achieve ?

Makes no difference to me!
But it would stop this argument.
The one unintended consequence of these clubs is courses over 7000 yds.
The onus on length seems to be the driver, but most ams havnt gained any distance that I can see over the years.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Makes no difference to me!
But it would stop this argument.
The one unintended consequence of these clubs is courses over 7000 yds.
The onus on length seems to be the driver, but most ams havnt gained any distance that I can see over the years.

I would love to see a 15 handicapper hit a club from say 5-10 years ago and the latest ones and see just how far if any the newer (and more expensive) versions go. What happened to loft up. Wasn't that suppose to be the next big thing and TM saying the loft was good for us and would give us distance and forgiveness?

 

[clubchamp98]

I would love to see a 15 handicapper hit a club from say 5-10 years ago and the latest ones and see just how far if any the newer (and more expensive) versions go. What happened to loft up. Wasn't that suppose to be the next big thing and TM saying the loft was good for us and would give us distance and forgiveness?

Think that was only with a driver.

 

[Hobbit]

What club do you use for your second shot on a 400 yard par 4? No, let me rephrase that, what distance do you have left on for your second shot on a 400 yard par 4?
How often do you find yourself reaching par fives in two shots?

It's a matter of opinion as to whether it's harmed the game or not, I believe it has.

Before Gene Sarazen came up with the sand wedge... and before that, bunker rakes. You've drawn a line at a particular point, i.e. reaching a par 5 in 2. I don't have a problem with that. But I do agree that there are some courses that have been made obsolete to the pro's. If every pro can clear every fairway bunker off the tee I agree its spoilt the game. Arguing over physical loft and dynamic loft of a PW misses the bigger picture.

As for can I reach par 5's in 2; Once upon a time I'd win most longest drive prizes, or be there or there abouts. I don't hit 550yd par 5's in 2 anymore, nor haven't for a good number of years. But I could, last year, reach 490yd par 5's in 2 with a good drive and a good 3 wood. Split that down into 260 + 230 and I don't think that's unreasonable for someone who has spent most of the last 40 years as a low single figure player - sadly off 6 now and will be unlikely to play again due to chronic arthritis. The b'tard's even in my hands now!

Lofts haven't spoilt the game, the ball has. Once upon a time I could move the ball relatively easily. Peripheral weighting hasn't helped but the ball itself just wants to fly straight. I, more recently, had to work the ball so hard just to achieve that movement left or right its just ridiculous.

 

[USER1999]

The two guys I play the most golf with have both recently changed to more game improvement orientated irons, and both are now hitting roughly an iron less than they used to.

Does it bother me? No. I am not fussed, but equally, they are knowledgable about golf, and know that this new distance is soley down to hitting stronger lofted irons, and there are gaps that need filling at the bottom end. It is up to them what they hit.

Me? I am not a fan. I don't want more distance from my irons. They are tools with a job to do. To me, a 7i is a 150 club ( as a base ), and I would like it to remain so.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I rest my case.

That people have been hitting the ball too far since 1970?

 

[Crow]

That people have been hitting the ball too far since 1970?

No, that golf changed too much over a 20 year span from around 1990 to 2010 as a combined result of driver and ball developments.

Sure Jack Nicklaus drove the 18th at St Andrews with a persimmon driver, but he was one of the longest hitters of his generation.
Par fives are called par fives for a reason, green in three plus two putts.
A 400 yard par 4 used to be an intimidating proposition for most amateurs, the better of whom could maybe hit the ball 250 yards on a good day in ideal conditions.

That development between 1990 and 2010 has harmed the game for me, I understand that for maybe 99.9% of golfers this isn't the case and they embrace the new game, as did I until recently.

Perhaps I just feel left behind as it's very hard to find a game with people whose views match mine, maybe it's time I left the forum altogether.

 

[Beezerk]

Back on track ?
Around 100 for me, I generally hit wedges with 3/4 swings and my 50 deg gap wedge is usually nailed on at 80 yards.

 

[robinthehood]

Average handicap is pretty much static, pros can overpower most courses.
Your regular 6300 yard course is more than a match for most handicap golfers
Majors have been 7000+ yards for a very long time. 40 years or more.

 

[Robin Hood]

PW approximately 108.73 yards ??

 

[Hobbit]

No, that golf changed too much over a 20 year span from around 1990 to 2010 as a combined result of driver and ball developments.

Sure Jack Nicklaus drove the 18th at St Andrews with a persimmon driver, but he was one of the longest hitters of his generation.
Par fives are called par fives for a reason, green in three plus two putts.
A 400 yard par 4 used to be an intimidating proposition for most amateurs, the better of whom could maybe hit the ball 250 yards on a good day in ideal conditions.

That development between 1990 and 2010 has harmed the game for me, I understand that for maybe 99.9% of golfers this isn't the case and they embrace the new game, as did I until recently.

Perhaps I just feel left behind as it's very hard to find a game with people whose views match mine, maybe it's time I left the forum altogether.

Do views have to match? I admire your view on the game. I'm not fussed about the clubs I play, though do prefer the modern tools. Not too keen on the 'hot' clubs that occasionally give weird results, my AP3's being an example. The drivers I don't mind either way. For me, I kinda emapthise with you albeit for me its the modern ball I'm not keen on.