ger147
Tour Winner
Don't see why a 28 guy winning is any worse than a scratch guy shooting two 70's losing to a 12 guy shooting 2 81's.
high Handicappers in CLub Champs Nett
- Thread starter SwingsitlikeHogan
- Start date
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
We haven't had divisions in any competition since the club started - it terms of winning percentages cat 4 comes comfortably last (cat 2 best).
Best ever nett score was a cat 1 player.
These are facts rather than generalisations or perceptions.
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
I see the argument both ways but bottom line for me is that high handicaps have more statistical variance and limits are there to try to eliminate that variance making a mockery of a competition, especially an important one. I don't think it's unreasonable for such a limit to be imposed on a couple of comps out of a whole season.
BTatHome
Tour Winner
We had a high handicapper shoot a nett 62 first day (something like 6 shots clear of the field), next day he shot a nett 87!! Winner close to handicap first day and then 6 under second day.
Don't see the point in trying to limit the handicaps, you'll always find someone that wins by shooting a great score.
Don't see the point in trying to limit the handicaps, you'll always find someone that wins by shooting a great score.
UlyssesSky
Head Pro
Interesting. Most comps I've played in were won by high handicappers (I'm talking about German high handicaps here), if there weren't divisions lower handicaps would have literally no chance at winning the/a net price. Winning scores are typically above 40 points net, and not many low handicappers can shoot that far below their handicap.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
36 hole competitions deal with this variance - you don't need anything else.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
UlyssesSky;135u5183 said:
The paradigm for EGA and USGA handicaps is completely different to CONGU in this regard.
I run mine in parallel on both systems and am almost a cat 4 under the USGA system at the moment (18.6)...
DCB
Well-known member
In our neck of the woods, a Club Champion represents their club in various other events, probably the most prestidgeous being the Champion of Champions, a scratch event run by the local association. Some serious scratch golf played in that event and the eventual winner has the kudos of being the best in the region.
Don't know of any club around here that has their championship decided on nett scores.
Don't know of any club around here that has their championship decided on nett scores.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Th only club championship that matters is the gross one, the nett is just another club competition and it doesn't really matter who wins or what their handicap is.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
The comps that have all the club champions playing in them the club champion must be the gross champion
GG26
Challenge Tour Pro
I am new to this, but presumably the club championship is to find the best golfer and so the best gross score should apply. I would not expect with my handicap of 26 to be in the reckoning for such a title. There are plenty of other competitions that I can play in.
As regards high handicappers in general, based on my own experience it would be be more difficult to win a competition in a medal due to variances in performance. Of the eighteen rounds I have played to date only one round would have given me a net score below par (-1 in that instance) with the rest at least +4 and some considerably more than that. I usually have a handful of bad holes with scores of 8, 9 and even the odd 10 and that is likely to be the case for most at my level.
I would have a better chance in a stableford comp, with the bad holes discarded, but even then consistent scoring would be required for a winning score.
There will be exceptions, but the more likely winners from the high handicappers are those fairly new to the game (or returning from a long absence), where they are likely to be improving. I hope this applies to me next year.
One of my passions is horse racing and there is a good analogy here with handicap races. It is often the improving horse that wins, although occasionally an established horse dropping down the handicap regains its form.
As regards high handicappers in general, based on my own experience it would be be more difficult to win a competition in a medal due to variances in performance. Of the eighteen rounds I have played to date only one round would have given me a net score below par (-1 in that instance) with the rest at least +4 and some considerably more than that. I usually have a handful of bad holes with scores of 8, 9 and even the odd 10 and that is likely to be the case for most at my level.
I would have a better chance in a stableford comp, with the bad holes discarded, but even then consistent scoring would be required for a winning score.
There will be exceptions, but the more likely winners from the high handicappers are those fairly new to the game (or returning from a long absence), where they are likely to be improving. I hope this applies to me next year.
One of my passions is horse racing and there is a good analogy here with handicap races. It is often the improving horse that wins, although occasionally an established horse dropping down the handicap regains its form.
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
Think we are all agreed that the Club Championship itself is pretty universally a gross comp. One of the only things I don't like about ours and am somewhat envious of other clubs is that it is simply a "best of" competition based on best 4 gross scores in (mostly) Saturday Comps over the whole season. Probably rewards the best golfer but very little excitement generated. We have a best 4 nett as well but that's not a board comp and no handicap limit. We do have a limit of 24 (only just raised to this from 20) for all other board comps.
We have our club championships and there is a prize for the best gross score (club champion) and one for best nett. To be honest 90% of the field have an unrealistic chance of ever winning the gross prize so without the nett prize it would be a pitiful entry for the most prestigious weekend on the calendar
North Mimms
Tour Winner
Agree.
I won the nett prize one year in our 36 hole championship. Didn't make me Ladies Club Champion - that was the best player with lowest gross score, which is right
HickoryShaft
Tour Rookie
Same here, always a big field but most are playing for the nett comp not the actual club championship. Still a great comp to win but is called 'The Stephen cup' (for reasons I don't know) and is not confused with the Club Championship.
Played over 36 holes on the same day so no HC adjustment between rounds. We have prizes for best rounds (gross and nett) for morning and afternoon but the rule on that day only is you can only win one prize so the winner of the overall gross or nett doesn't mop up everything which they clearly would be likely to do (or at least most) if this didn't apply. Makes sense I guess but I won the best nett for the afternoon this year by being 1 under par with the best nett getting 3 under on the same round so felt a bit strange getting the prize. He did get a massive cup and a nice pot of cash as well though.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Depending on the chosen format I think there's a real danger that Club Champ can be very diluted and dare I say almost a nonsense
If like me you've seen the 'board' with its glittering gold letters and seen the same name/s making multiple appearances year after year with very little change, I do wonder...
Does it tell me he/she is the best golfer again and again and again, or just that there's actually very little real competition in the club for a limited field comp
If like me you've seen the 'board' with its glittering gold letters and seen the same name/s making multiple appearances year after year with very little change, I do wonder...
Does it tell me he/she is the best golfer again and again and again, or just that there's actually very little real competition in the club for a limited field comp
barb
Head Pro
It is the same at our club and this year hubby came 2nd in the nett comp off a 22 handicap as he played to handicap the 1st round then played 8 under the 2nd round, for him everything just clicked on the day and that was the 1st time he has ever played like that as been struggling for a long time. So for me it was lovely to see as it gave him a massive confidence boost knowing he did it in the biggest comp of the year 😀
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I hear what you're saying...
Both clubs I've been a member at run gross and nett Comps at the same time because there are probably no more than 3 or 4 players capable of winning the big prize.
We have 2 players off 1 or 2.
A bad round for them is 3 or 4 over.....the chances are that one of them is going to throw in a level par round or better, leaving very little chance for anyone else - and not really a problem as the best player wins, but it can show a lack of depth
I think we've swayed away from the content in the OP's post.
It is clearly agreed by everyone that the club champion is the best gross winner over 36 holes and it is very usual and common for a nett comp to run by the side of it to make all those not able to compete for such a grande honour to compete in the lesser, but still nice to win, nett club champs which could be a salver or the like, all in all it makes for a very inclusive day.
BUT, the OP thinks it could be unfair for high Cat4's to compete in such nett comps because they may have 1 of their purple days and has eluded to have them capped (restricted handicap) or cut after the initial 18 holes in case they have another "blue moon round"!
It is clearly agreed by everyone that the club champion is the best gross winner over 36 holes and it is very usual and common for a nett comp to run by the side of it to make all those not able to compete for such a grande honour to compete in the lesser, but still nice to win, nett club champs which could be a salver or the like, all in all it makes for a very inclusive day.
BUT, the OP thinks it could be unfair for high Cat4's to compete in such nett comps because they may have 1 of their purple days and has eluded to have them capped (restricted handicap) or cut after the initial 18 holes in case they have another "blue moon round"!
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Yes im still confused why he didn't get cut after the first round.
We had our club champs this weekend and one of the guys went from 15 to 16 for the second round so does that mean it is increases only and no cuts? but as you mentioned in a previous post the cuts can happen after the 2nd round only?
