Heres a thought..about handicaps maxing at 18 for comps

[CMAC]

Firstly I have no issue with handicaps over 18 as we all start somewhere, usually though a 25 or 28 gets 'good' pretty quickly and in that time romps some comps with low 60's nett. Plus you can end up giving 20 shots to someone in a matchplay knockout (and thats after the difference) and find them putting for a 3 nett 1 on a par4
Yes, there is a reason they are off high 20's but thats usually down to blowing up on a few holes.

Would it be fair or even possible that medals are off 18 max. Anyone over that plays in separate medals for 18-28 to get their handicap down, they can play in club medals as well but off 18.

What about the guys who will never get to 18 I hear you cry? what about the guys who go up to 19? Would 18-28 feel like lepers and not play in their comps?

all decent questions, just opening the thread up for sensible discussion:mmm:

 

[ColchesterFC]

Can understand the thinking for players that are improving but what about the people going in the other direction. My dad for example has played for years and been around a 14 to 18 handicap for most of that time but now with increasing age and decreasing distance he finds it hard to play to that standard and as a result his handicap is on the way up. Doesn't seem fair that he shouldn't be allowed to compete.

 

[BTatHome]

Why have a limit of 18? Have seen more guys off 15/16 shoot low 60's than the higher guys.

 

[CMAC]

Can understand the thinking for players that are improving but what about the people going in the other direction. My dad for example has played for years and been around a 14 to 18 handicap for most of that time but now with increasing age and decreasing distance he finds it hard to play to that standard and as a result his handicap is on the way up. Doesn't seem fair that he shouldn't be allowed to compete.

ahh but he still can, he can play in both comps, one max 18 and the other full handicap which by your post might only be 19 or 20 so only 2 shots over 18 holes.

 

[CMAC]

Why have a limit of 18? Have seen more guys off 15/16 shoot low 60's than the higher guys.

stroke a hole....max. That's really the gist of the thread.:mmm:

 

[Paperboy]

Our board comps where handicap cut off of 20. Now it's been changed to full handicap as it was deemed to be unfair to the higher handicaps.

I'm not overly bothered what a comp is or could be limited to. I've got to my target for the year and just looking to enjo the comps and hopefully push on again

 

[ColchesterFC]

ahh but he still can, he can play in both comps, one max 18 and the other full handicap which by your post might only be 19 or 20 so only 2 shots over 18 holes.

Nope he's struggling to play to 26 at the minute. If the handicap limit was set to 18 he and I suspect a lot of others wouldn't bother entering the comps and then the prize pool would be lower which would then deter others. Why bother having handicaps that allow us to play against better players and compete with them if you are going to put arbitrary limits on them. I don't see any difference between this and suggesting all comps should be played off scratch.

 

[Sweep]

All our board comps are max 18. To be honest it causes a little bad feeling, especially amongst the guys who play every week in every comp and who's handicap is genuinely and clearly above 18.
The committee says it is to protect the comp from new golfers who are coming down quickly, I can see both view points. Maybe there is a way to set a number of comps played in the last year or maybe 6 months ( say 7 or so) to allow those who play every week above 18 to keep their actual handicap, but I am not sure the system allows for it. Clearly the 3 cards in the last 12 months active handicap rule isn't enough for this purpose.

 

[CMAC]

Nope he's struggling to play to 26 at the minute. If the handicap limit was set to 18 he and I suspect a lot of others wouldn't bother entering the comps and then the prize pool would be lower which would then deter others. Why bother having handicaps that allow us to play against better players and compete with them if you are going to put arbitrary limits on them. I don't see any difference between this and suggesting all comps should be played off scratch.

but his handicap is 14-18 you stated. I struggle to play to 12 this season.

You make a fair point and thats a question I posed in the OP. There is always individual cases such as your Dad and similar, I played against a 22 h/cap that I couldnt outdrive and was putting for gross birdie more than I was.

So its a difficult question and one that probably has no right or wrong answer, certainly there will be no solution but I put it up for discussion to see the general view

 

[ColchesterFC]

My dad for example has played for years and been around a 14 to 18 handicap for most of that time but now with increasing age and decreasing distance he finds it hard to play to that standard and as a result his handicap is on the way up.

but his handicap is 14-18 you stated. I struggle to play to 12 this season.

See my bold above. He's played for years at around that level but his handicap is on the way up now. And getting the odd 0.1 back isn't keeping pace with his increasing scores. I've suggested to him to let his handicap lapse and then start again by putting 3 new cards in that would actually reflect his current ability.

 

[CMAC]

See my bold above. He's played for years at around that level but his handicap is on the way up now. And getting the odd 0.1 back isn't keeping pace with his increasing scores. I've suggested to him to let his handicap lapse and then start again by putting 3 new cards in that would actually reflect his current ability.

that would make sense, getting to where you are playing currently can take YEARS at 0.1 and in that time is very disheartening for the golfer.

 

[needmoreclub]

but his handicap is 14-18 you stated. I struggle to play to 12 this season.

You make a fair point and thats a question I posed in the OP. There is always individual cases such as your Dad and similar, I played against a 22 h/cap that I couldnt outdrive and was putting for gross birdie more than I was.

So its a difficult question and one that probably has no right or wrong answer, certainly there will be no solution but I put it up for discussion to see the general view

I feel your pain CMAC, i recently played in as pairs match giving away 15 shots to one guy, 2nd hole par 4 446yds uphill, he hits drive, short iron to 6 inches, stroking of course, net eagle, apparently he was 'just having one of those days', it's very frustrating coming up against those guys regularly in match play and come Saturday stroke he can't break 90. Haven't really got an answer to your OP as someone stated that yes it would stop sharks winning but would also stop genuine guys playing for pleasure.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Maybe the rule could just apply for the first 1-2 years of membership for new guys. If you've been a member more than 1-2 years you can still play off your 22/24 etc. as their handicap will have a history for at least a few years then, so less chance of banditry.

An interim measure for itinerant golfers, which there will be more of, with lots of clubs not having joining fees anymore.

Protects all golfers then.

 

[SaintHacker]

Don't know about other clubs but at ours we have two divisions, up to 14 and 14-28. There are prizes for each division and an overall winners prize so everyone has a chance of a win. If it was just limited to 18 I wouldn't bother and I think a lot of others would do the same. Why pay to enter something you've got no chance of winning?

 

[nemicu]

So, is there a problem with the handicapping system as it stands? If there isn't, then you have no reason to limit handicaps in any form of competition.
But you can set a limit to how many qualifying rounds of golf are necessary to possess a competition handicap. The absolute LAST thing I want is a USGA style handicapping and course slope rating system which makes the sandbagging bandit even more prevalent IMO as it relates more to potential scoring prowess rather than actual ability as recorded in competition. Sure, there are those who would want to "throw" a few games to get a higher handicap than their ability would otherwise suggest, but these individuals are thankfully so few in the UK (and deluded) that it rarely enters the equation. In the USGA system it almost actively encourages it, if you return a score for handicapping in every casual round of golf.
I like the system as it stands - and I can live with the fact that occasionally a high handicapper plays well and deserves to win.

 

[CMAC]

Don't know about other clubs but at ours we have two divisions, up to 14 and 14-28. There are prizes for each division and an overall winners prize so everyone has a chance of a win. If it was just limited to 18 I wouldn't bother and I think a lot of others would do the same. Why pay to enter something you've got no chance of winning?

isnt that the cat1 argument as to shoot 61/62 (thats what wins each week from some cat3) would mean a scratch 67, however I enter many scratch comps I have zero chance of winning but do it for the experience plus I can still get cut

 

[garyinderry]

completely agree with this. removes the comfort blanket of extra shots over 18. they are really not needed for stableford.

whatever handicap you are given becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. you just knuckle down and learn to play with it. if you don't it slowly rises.


more than happy for someone to play off more than 18. as long as you start at 18 and go up every 0.1 when necessary.

 

[RGDave]

We know the handicap system is dodgy at times, but I guess we have to go with it.

At mine, the higher handicaps win almost nothing; that's a peculiarity of my course - it simply isn't possible to "get lucky" and shoot the lights out. However, at the other two local courses, the comps often get bandit winners.

As my new pro/coach says. Playing off 24 is dodgy around ********, because you can hit the ball anywhere you like, chip it out and make a 6 or 7 at worse (and also sometimes with two shots in stableford).

We have some 12-16 yard fairways at mine. Miss those in the wrong place, and it's reload, 3 off the tee. Our medals go to players mostly off 6-16.

 

[Fyldewhite]

First, we all have days out. I'm off 6 and have shot 43 points and nett 62's in comps...not very often granted but I do think that high handicappers are ridiculed for this when in reality it doesn't happen that often to them either. We do have a handicap limit of our main finals though (20) and juniors are not allowed to win unless off single figures. I think it must work as most comps at our place are won by low-mid handicappers (say 12 and under). We have divisions for the qualifying rounds and tbh the scores in div 1 and 2 are nearly always lower than div 3 but our course is set up tough at the moment.
As for matchplay, there's a great explanation of why it should be full handicap on the CONGU website. Also, at out place our knockout has still been won by a single figure player every year since the rule changed so again the reality does not match the perception.
The handicap system works fine overall. If someone off (say) 24 shoots one of these "unbeatable" scores then they will go down probably 3/4 shots in one go. Another one and they are down to 18 naturally. The problem is that clubs run too many on-off "on the day" competitions for major trophies which is asking for the statistical blip to spoil things. Play qualifiers (like we do) and they have to have a good round to qualify and another to win......the high men very rarely do that.

 

[Old Skier]

Some major work has been carried out by the powers to be and there findings where sent to clubs 3/4 years ago and it seems that in the majority of match plays were the lower handicapper is playing to or near their handicap they end up winning. I have been at several matches were the lower handicapper makes the, "how many shots, I haven't got a chance" statement and true enough, they haven't because they have lost it on the first tee.

The aim of the game is to get more people playing and by restricting those with a legitimate handicap will soon reduce comp entries. Have 2/3 divisions and comps which cater for all handicaps.

As the majority of club players are off handicaps above 16 perhaps England Golf/Counties and clubs should start looking at some decent comps in the higher bracket.