handicap

[gazwolf]

can anyone help,my usual texas scramble team and I have recently been cut a shot each off our handicaps due to winning a fair few texas scrambles.is our handicap committee in their rights to do this ? thy said it was cut for general play,we hav al submitted the correct amount of qualifying cards for the year.one is off 19.one off 14.nd 2 off 9.i find thisa bit unfair to the ones off 9

 

[Foxholer]

Whereabouts in the UK are you? England? Scotland?

Actually, it shouldn't matter where in this case as Texas Scrambles are not even a recognised form of the game, as far as The Rules are concerned!

So you could easily challenge the cuts and if no joy there, take it to you Area Authority! Your Handicap Secretary would have to justify his action or reverse the cuts.

Scottish Handicap Secretaries tend to be a bit more 'active' than their English counterparts, who are encouraged to let the system handle the vast majority of handicap changes.

One 'disclaimer' though. I'd question why you are against getting your handicap cut. If you are managing it at a higher level than it ought to be so that you can 'be competitive', then I would call that virtual cheating! In that case, your Handicap Secretary would be quite justified in cutting you - and giving you a message to 'play fair'.

The 'rules' of Texas scramble that I'm familiar would only mean that your 'team' score was cut 0.4 - as scoring (assuming 4 in team) is Gross minus one tenth of Total of Handicaps.

Hope that helps

 

[HawkeyeMS]

can anyone help,my usual texas scramble team and I have recently been cut a shot each off our handicaps due to winning a fair few texas scrambles.is our handicap committee in their rights to do this ? thy said it was cut for general play,we hav al submitted the correct amount of qualifying cards for the year.one is off 19.one off 14.nd 2 off 9.i find thisa bit unfair to the ones off 9

When you say you submitted the "correct amount of qualifying cards" do you mean the minimum of 3? Also, why is it only unfair to the guys off of 9? If you all have accurate handicaps, it is fair\unfair (delete as appropriate) to all of you.

P.S. Why are you playing so many scrambles?

 

[gazwolf]

yes we have submitted at least 3.i think its more unfair to the guys off 9 because I think 9 to 8 is like 19 to 16 in relative terms.we don't just enter scrambles but seem to do very well at them.we never do well at best 2 from 4

 

[gazwolf]

Whereabouts in the UK are you? England? Scotland?

Actually, it shouldn't matter where in this case as Texas Scrambles are not even a recognised form of the game, as far as The Rules are concerned!

So you could easily challenge the cuts and if no joy there, take it to you Area Authority! Your Handicap Secretary would have to justify his action or reverse the cuts.

Scottish Handicap Secretaries tend to be a bit more 'active' than their English counterparts, who are encouraged to let the system handle the vast majority of handicap changes.

One 'disclaimer' though. I'd question why you are against getting your handicap cut. If you are managing it at a higher level than it ought to be so that you can 'be competitive', then I would call that virtual cheating! In that case, your Handicap Secretary would be quite justified in cutting you - and giving you a message to 'play fair'.

The 'rules' of Texas scramble that I'm familiar would only mean that your 'team' score was cut 0.4 - as scoring (assuming 4 in team) is Gross minus one tenth of Total of Handicaps.

Hope that help

 

[gazwolf]

yes it does help thanks.we are pleased to get our handicaps down but we are sure one of the committee has a personal vendetta against us.at the end of the day it only drops us .4 as a team but this elderly gent is very good friends with someone who always did very well in this format until we started playing as a team.plus the fact that the competition has only attracted 4 or 5 teams for the last 3 comps

 

[rosecott]

If, as you say, all 4 members of your scramble team have been chopped because of your success in scrambles, it has to be challenged. It would be a huge co-incidence if the playing record of all 4 in qualifiers just happened to suggest a chop for all 4 under General Play (General Play cuts other than from Annual Review should now be extremely rare). There is a laid down appeals process which can be downloaded from the EnglandGolf website - assuming you are in England.

Like Hawkeye, I would be interested to know why so many scrambles are played.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How many scrambles do you play ?

We have three - one of them is a mixed. All played on a BH and a bit of fun

 

[nemicu]

General rule of thumb: if you play off a handicap, then be prepared to be cut off it too. Regardless of the format, you must have played an event using a handicap. You successfully played at a level that required scrutiny, so I'm afraid you'll have to deal with it. You can't have your cake and eat it.

 

[rosecott]

Regardless of the format, you must have played an event using a handicap. You successfully played at a level that required scrutiny, so I'm afraid you'll have to deal with it.

I think you should have read all the posts on this thread. You simply cannot reduce handicaps based on non-qualifiers. There are many formats - pairs, scrambles and other team games, knockouts etc. - from which handicap committees cannot adjust handicaps.

 

[nemicu]

I think you should have read all the posts on this thread. You simply cannot reduce handicaps based on non-qualifiers. There are many formats - pairs, scrambles and other team games, knockouts etc. - from which handicap committees cannot adjust handicaps.

Yes you can - see CONGU clause 23.
http://www.handicapmaster.org/handicaps/Unified_Handicapping_System_Page3.php

That being aside, I would reiterate my point of playing off a handicap - be prepared to have it adjusted! That doesn't necessarily mean via official routes either - at our club, in addition to our official playing handicaps we also have a "saturday club" handicap recorded in a book. This tracks our scores up and down in casual rounds and stops anyone from playing outside their "form" based on previous rounds. No, it's not official, but coincidentally it was invented by a group of old duffers who were worried that their weekly bet would be affected by a single shot and they could potentially lose 50p. From the sound of it, the OP seems to be that concerned too lol.

 

[sawtooth]

Yes you can - see CONGU clause 23.
http://www.handicapmaster.org/handicaps/Unified_Handicapping_System_Page3.php

That being aside, I would reiterate my point of playing off a handicap - be prepared to have it adjusted! That doesn't necessarily mean via official routes either - at our club, in addition to our official playing handicaps we also have a "saturday club" handicap recorded in a book. This tracks our scores up and down in casual rounds and stops anyone from playing outside their "form" based on previous rounds. No, it's not official, but coincidentally it was invented by a group of old duffers who were worried that their weekly bet would be affected by a single shot and they could potentially lose 50p. From the sound of it, the OP seems to be that concerned too lol.

Club singles and pairs are examples of non-qualifying comps that can be taken into account for CONGU handicap adjustment. But not any old format. Society rounds regardless of the format cannot be used either.

The only "social" rounds taken into account are supplemental cards, these rounds need to be played at the "home" course only with a fellow member and R&A rules followed, no conceded putts, etc.

 

[rosecott]

Yes you can - see CONGU clause 23.
http://www.handicapmaster.org/handicaps/Unified_Handicapping_System_Page3.php

Perhaps you should read official publications on administering handicaps. This is from England Golf - the handicapping authority for English clubs:

"The Club Handicapping Committee are required under Clause 23 of the CONGU UHS to conduct a review of handicaps of all members whom it has been identified as the Home Club. This review is to be made each year prior to the 1st March in order to ensure all members with CONGU handicaps have handicaps that are reflective of their current playing ability.
Once this review has taken place handicaps should only be adjusted outside of qualifying competitions under General Play and only then under exceptional circumstances. In order to clarify the definition of Exceptional Circumstances England Golf has identified that handicaps can only be adjusted under the following circumstances:
• Impaired golfing ability resulting from extended illness or injury.
• The need to correct a handicap that was allocated at an inappropriate level.
• The return of a series of good scores in Qualifying Competitions within a short timeframe by a hitherto infrequent competitor.
• A number of, probably three or more, good playing performances in Better Ball and Singles match play events by a player who otherwise may not participate with any regularity in Qualifying Competitions.
England Golf have also announced that scores returned in Mixed Foursomes, Society and Corporate events and social golf must not be used in the adjustment of a CONGU handicap."

That means that a Handicap Committee may not adjust a handicap as a result of a single non-qualifier.

 

[nemicu]

I have recently been cut a shot each off our handicaps due to winning a fair few texas scrambles.is our handicap committee in their rights to do this ?

Perhaps you should read official publications on administering handicaps. This is from England Golf - the handicapping authority for English clubs:

"The Club Handicapping Committee are required under Clause 23 of the CONGU UHS to conduct a review of handicaps of all members whom it has been identified as the Home Club. This review is to be made each year prior to the 1st March in order to ensure all members with CONGU handicaps have handicaps that are reflective of their current playing ability.
Once this review has taken place handicaps should only be adjusted outside of qualifying competitions under General Play and only then under exceptional circumstances.

That means that a Handicap Committee may not adjust a handicap as a result of a single non-qualifier.

So your point is...?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

So your point is...?

I'm gonna guess that since Texas Scramble isn't a recognised form of the game and isn't matchplay of any kind it is therefore classed as social golf which can't be used for handicap adjustments.

 

[nemicu]

can anyone help,my usual texas scramble team and I have recently been cut a shot each off our handicaps due to winning a fair few texas scrambles.is our handicap committee in their rights to do this ? thy said it was cut for general play,we hav al submitted the correct amount of qualifying cards for the year.one is off 19.one off 14.nd 2 off 9.i find thisa bit unfair to the ones off 9

Perhaps you should read official publications on administering handicaps. This is from England Golf - the handicapping authority for English clubs:

"The Club Handicapping Committee are required under Clause 23 of the CONGU UHS to conduct a review of handicaps of all members whom it has been identified as the Home Club. This review is to be made each year prior to the 1st March in order to ensure all members with CONGU handicaps have handicaps that are reflective of their current playing ability.
Once this review has taken place handicaps should only be adjusted outside of qualifying competitions under General Play and only then under exceptional circumstances. In order to clarify the definition of Exceptional Circumstances England Golf has identified that handicaps can only be adjusted under the following circumstances:
• Impaired golfing ability resulting from extended illness or injury.
• The need to correct a handicap that was allocated at an inappropriate level.
• The return of a series of good scores in Qualifying Competitions within a short timeframe by a hitherto infrequent competitor.
• A number of, probably three or more, good playing performances in Better Ball and Singles match play events by a player who otherwise may not participate with any regularity in Qualifying Competitions.
England Golf have also announced that scores returned in Mixed Foursomes, Society and Corporate events and social golf must not be used in the adjustment of a CONGU handicap."

That means that a Handicap Committee may not adjust a handicap as a result of a single non-qualifier.

I'm gonna guess that since Texas Scramble isn't a recognised form of the game and isn't matchplay of any kind it is therefore classed as social golf which can't be used for handicap adjustments.

Texas Scramble is played off a handicap - usually half combined. If the OP had (as they quoted) won a "fair few", the committee would be well within their rights to review their handicaps under CONGU guidelines.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Texas Scramble is played off a handicap - usually half combined. If the OP had (as they quoted) won a "fair few", the committee would be well within their rights to review their handicaps under CONGU guidelines.

Social golf is also played off a handicap, it's still social golf.

 

[rosecott]

Texas Scramble is played off a handicap - usually half combined. If the OP had (as they quoted) won a "fair few", the committee would be well within their rights to review their handicaps under CONGU guidelines.

No, they would not. Are you sure you're not DelC in disguise?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Texas Scramble is played off a handicap - usually half combined. If the OP had (as they quoted) won a "fair few", the committee would be well within their rights to review their handicaps under CONGU guidelines.

Texas Scramble half combined ?! Really

its normally 10% of the combined handicaps when ever i have played it

cant see how any handicap cant be assessed on Texas Scramble - what if it was just one player doing all the damage in the team ?!

 

[nemicu]

can anyone help,my usual texas scramble team and I have recently been cut a shot each off our handicaps due to winning a fair few texas scrambles.is our handicap committee in their rights to do this ? thy said it was cut for general play,we hav al submitted the correct amount of qualifying cards for the year.one is off 19.one off 14.nd 2 off 9.i find thisa bit unfair to the ones off 9

Perhaps you should read official publications on administering handicaps. This is from England Golf - the handicapping authority for English clubs:

"The Club Handicapping Committee are required under Clause 23 of the CONGU UHS to conduct a review of handicaps of all members whom it has been identified as the Home Club. This review is to be made each year prior to the 1st March in order to ensure all members with CONGU handicaps have handicaps that are reflective of their current playing ability.
Once this review has taken place handicaps should only be adjusted outside of qualifying competitions under General Play and only then under exceptional circumstances. In order to clarify the definition of Exceptional Circumstances England Golf has identified that handicaps can only be adjusted under the following circumstances:
• Impaired golfing ability resulting from extended illness or injury.
• The need to correct a handicap that was allocated at an inappropriate level.
• The return of a series of good scores in Qualifying Competitions within a short timeframe by a hitherto infrequent competitor.
• A number of, probably three or more, good playing performances in Better Ball and Singles match play events by a player who otherwise may not participate with any regularity in Qualifying Competitions.
England Golf have also announced that scores returned in Mixed Foursomes, Society and Corporate events and social golf must not be used in the adjustment of a CONGU handicap."

That means that a Handicap Committee may not adjust a handicap as a result of a single non-qualifier.

No, they would not. Are you sure you're not DelC in disguise?

Nope. I'm pretty sure I know how handicaps work though. it certainly wouldn't be the first time I heard anyone bleating because they lost 0.4 off their handicap and lost a 10p nassau bet either. Get over it.