Would you drop my handicap after a good front 9?

LizAig

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
153
Visit site
A bit of background - I’ve been ill since late 2018 - that season I dropped from 19 to 12 but, as I became ill, my handicap went up and up! Whilst ill I tried to continue playing but was awful - anything from 30 - 60 over par and so bad that, following a discussion with the regional England Golf Handicap Secretary, my HI was increased to 33 (and I still went up!). I‘m now back to playing 18 holes and generally the first 9 holes are fantastic golf and then I get steadily worse as i run out of energy. I am feeling better each time I go out and have dropped my HI by 4 so far. I have however managed to win 5/6 comps which hasn’t gone down well in our ladies section! The first medal I won with a net 62 (par 67) but the rest have been one shot better then par or over (e.g. a net 73). Yesterday I scored 21 pts going out, 14 coming back and won with 35 - second had 31 points. After the comp it was announced that i was being dropped to 28. I’m part of H&C committee so a good understanding of handicaps so queried why and was told I’ve been putting in good scores and later a text to say it was basically because of my huge front 9 yesterday.

I’m part of the H&C committee but wasn’t part of that discussion so I’m interested in other people’s thoughts! My feeling is I’ve been dropped because I’m winning (and the ladies are complaining), not because of my scores but happy to be corrected.
 

Attachments

  • 1EDE12D3-6890-4C70-85E5-017159F4EB02.jpeg
    1EDE12D3-6890-4C70-85E5-017159F4EB02.jpeg
    499.1 KB · Views: 31
  • 92BA178A-BB1E-46EF-ABD8-EB80E609FC21.jpeg
    92BA178A-BB1E-46EF-ABD8-EB80E609FC21.jpeg
    460.1 KB · Views: 29
Last edited:

Billysboots

Falling apart at the seams
Moderator
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
5,783
Visit site
I am no expert on handicaps, however, it seems totally unacceptable to me to be cutting someone based on only part of a full round.

Anyone who has ever played this game, especially competitively, will say that we are all capable of a great front or back nine occasionally without stringing a full round together. I’ve shot 20+ points on the front any number of times only to blow up like a cheap firework and not make 36 points. If I was to receive a significant cut in such circumstances I would be less than happy about it.

I think at the very least you are owed an explanation. I would be asking your H & C committee to set out in full why your HI has been reduced. If they are basing it on a handful of holes out of a full round I think they are taking the mick.
 

LizAig

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
153
Visit site
Looking at your score differentials, they don't scream out that your handicap is incorrect, in fact I'd say that if you've managed to win 5 or 6 comps with the scores shown then the rest of the ladies have handicaps that are too low and they should be having theirs increased rather than yours decreased.
That’s what I’ve said before - the week I won with a 73 the closest score was 77 and conditions were perfect!
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,688
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
Firstly I would say the committee cannot adjust your handicap without first discussing it with you

Rules of Handicapping Rule 7

Any adjustment to a player’s Handicap Index resulting from a handicap review
must:

Be applied only after the player has been informed and has had an opportunity to
respond to the Handicap Committee .....


We give players 28 days in which to respond

It is clear from your record you are improving but in my personal opinion not sufficiently enough to warrant a Handicap Committee intervention at this stage. You are only 2 scores away from all your best 8 most likely coming from this year and I would wait until those scores are. Particularly as the current handicap system will take care of it I would then review based upon those scores in their entirety.
 
Joined
May 26, 2023
Messages
43
Visit site
A bit of background - I’ve been ill since late 2018 - that season I dropped from 19 to 12 but, as I became ill, my handicap went up and up! Whilst ill I tried to continue playing but was awful - anything from 30 - 60 over par and so bad that, following a discussion with the regional England Golf Handicap Secretary, my HI was increased to 33 (and I still went up!). I‘m now back to playing 18 holes and generally the first 9 holes are fantastic golf and then I get steadily worse as i run out of energy. I am feeling better each time I go out and have dropped my HI by 4 so far. I have however managed to win 5/6 comps which hasn’t gone down well in our ladies section! The first medal I won with a net 62 (par 67) but the rest have been one shot better then par or over (e.g. a net 73). Yesterday I scored 21 pts going out, 14 coming back and won with 35 - second had 31 points. After the comp it was announced that i was being dropped to 28. I’m part of H&C committee so a good understanding of handicaps so queried why and was told I’ve been putting in good scores and later a text to say it was basically because of my huge front 9 yesterday.

I’m part of the H&C committee but wasn’t part of that discussion - I’m not going to kick up a fuss but interested in other people’s thoughts! My feeling is I’ve been dropped because I’m winning and the ladies are complaining, not because of my scores.
Does seem iffy, though you should also be happy to be improving. A dedicated H'cap manager at my first club only managed the Men's section as he - his words - was frightened of getting involved with the Ladies section. His actual view was that the Ladies ran the comp and handicaps like swindles rather than using Congu rules, but that they weren't going to chnge. That stated, it's actually quite difficult to deal with players returning from injury or illness.
 

LizAig

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
153
Visit site
Does seem iffy, though you should also be happy to be improving. A dedicated H'cap manager at my first club only managed the Men's section as he - his words - was frightened of getting involved with the Ladies section. His actual view was that the Ladies ran the comp and handicaps like swindles rather than using Congu rules, but that they weren't going to chnge. That stated, it's actually quite difficult to deal with players returning from injury or illness.
I’m delighted to improve - a bit disappointed I haven’t come down more tbh but I really want to do it through my play, not by being dropped! If my scores were exceptional then fair enough but I wouldn’t be dropped on those scores in the men’s section! My aim is to get to 22 this year! I may reward myself with new irons if I do!
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
10,642
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
Have they not just effectively reviewed your handicap, and given you a cut? They haven't officially used your 9 hole score, plugged it in as 9 hole round and have it appear on your record? Just said a great front 9 is part of their evidence?

You used to play off a low handicap, and recently won 5 or 6 comps of the higher handicap, which seems a heck of a lot. So much so, other members are irritated

Committees can review handicaps at any time, and this seems as good a case as any to adjust a handicap downwards. To be fair to your Committee, they also were involved in discussions to get you up to 33 when you needed it.
 
Joined
May 26, 2023
Messages
43
Visit site
Have they not just effectively reviewed your handicap, and given you a cut? They haven't officially used your 9 hole score, plugged it in as 9 hole round and have it appear on your record? Just said a great front 9 is part of their evidence?

You used to play off a low handicap, and recently won 5 or 6 comps of the higher handicap, which seems a heck of a lot. So much so, other members are irritated

Committees can review handicaps at any time, and this seems as good a case as any to adjust a handicap downwards. To be fair to your Committee, they also were involved in discussions to get you up to 33 when you needed it.
As Jim8flog posted above, there are rules and procedures that should be followed for 'reviews'. The reported front 9 score indicates potential, but the back 9 score indicates there's still further recovery required. As I posted earlier, it suggests that the Ladies handicapping may not be rollowing Congu procedures, but being run in swindle fashion resulting in many vanity handicaps, something I've observed before. It would be interesting to see how the Ladies section fare in interclub matches
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
10,642
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
As Jim8flog posted above, there are rules and procedures that should be followed for 'reviews'. The reported front 9 score indicates potential, but the back 9 score indicates there's still further recovery required. As I posted earlier, it suggests that the Ladies handicapping may not be rollowing Congu procedures, but being run in swindle fashion resulting in many vanity handicaps, something I've observed before. It would be interesting to see how the Ladies section fare in interclub matches
They perhaps didn't go about it perfectly by saying the handicap would be dropped. Although, we don't know enough. That could have simply been their way to inform the player about the cut, perhaps somewhat informally. I'm sure there was discussion amongst committee before this was said to player, rather than said out of blue?

As I said, winning 5 or 6 comps seems excessive. At same time, I've no idea what scores won them all, what other players in field scored or how many played (forgive me, not read all posts, if it was mentioned).

If club were willing to increase a players handicap up to 33, requiring discussions with England Golf, I thought the Committee may well have their heads screwed on. Perhaps they have seen evidence that a player, who used to play off 12, is showing signs of improvement again. So, they may be taking a soft approach at chipping in back down again, shifting it to 28? When they made the big increase to 33, they may well have made a point of keeping a closer eye on it that most other player handicaps.
 

LizAig

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
153
Visit site
Thanks everyone for your opinions. all. I’d sent a text to handicap sec (who is a good friend) tongue in cheek saying I think are you only dropping me because I’m winning. She said that made her think she probably was. It’s difficult as I’m part of H&C but anyway I was dropped from HI 32.2 to 30. Medal today and scored net 64 (par 69). I’m keeping quiet!!
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
10,642
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
Thanks everyone for your opinions. all. I’d sent a text to handicap sec (who is a good friend) tongue in cheek saying I think are you only dropping me because I’m winning. She said that made her think she probably was. It’s difficult as I’m part of H&C but anyway I was dropped from HI 32.2 to 30. Medal today and scored net 64 (par 69). I’m keeping quiet!!
A bit more evidence that the Committee could well have been justified in their actions :)
 
Top