KenL
Tour Rookie
27 is not a mid handicapper!
Handicap manipulation - how to address
- Thread starter Teebs
- Start date
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
D-S
Well-known member
.The average men’s HI in England is 17.7, for women it is 27.0.
KenL
Tour Rookie
So the average is a high handicap. Golf is not easy.
WorldHandicapSystem
Well-known member
I didn’t say it was.
KenL
Tour Rookie
And I just made a passing comment.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Anyone who gets two shots a hole is high imo.
One shot a hole or less middle
Single figures low
Plus elite.
WorldHandicapSystem
Well-known member
Under 5 is lowish, but nothing special.
The problem group seems to be those between 6 and 9.9 who think they are low handicappers and therefore special. Especially those who are maintaining vanity caps. Or aren’t quite as good as they once were.
It will never settle. It's a nonsense of a system. Even the outgoing Slumbers admits it is not right but he's more concerned about your handicap being representative when you pop to France for a round. Load of ....
wjemather
Well-known member
Be honest, you just plucked some numbers out of thin air without any substantial data to back them up.
wjemather
Well-known member
15 is about average for men.
KenL
Tour Rookie
It might be average but there is a massive gap in ability between a scratch golfer and a 15 hcp. There is much less of a difference in ability comparing a 15 and 30 handicap player. That’s my opinion anyway. The handicap system is not a linear scale.
wjemather
Well-known member
With only subtle differences, you've said the same thing about a dozen times now. Not once have you given any reasoning or identified anything specific that others can discuss.
And I suggest you listen to what Martin Slumbers actually said (or read a transcript), because you haven't accurately reflected his words here.
Colin L
Tour Winner
What Martin Slumbers has actually said:
"If I looked at pre-WHS in the UK, using our CONGU system, the average number of cards submitted was three a year per golfer. It was extremely difficult to go up or down in that system, so the handicap really wasn’t a reflection of your playing ability. But more importantly, this is a global game, not a local game, and it always seemed nonsensical that you don’t have a handicap in France which is equivalent to a handicap in Australia.
We are three years into the new WHS. We invited 40 of our most significant golfing affiliates to St Andrews last week and 37 turned up. They had a very good and extensive discussion around real feedback, not anecdotal feedback, from around the world. I am sure – and I know – that will lead to ways in which we can improve it."
"I know there are some concerns in GB&I with the adequacy of General Play scores, but I’m a huge advocate of General Play scores," said Slumbers. "I think there should be more being put in."
"I’ve had a number of discussions with organisations in GB&I who have reservations about them and I disagree. A lot of the reservations are around a small number of individuals who are putting in scores either too low or too high, and we should be trying to address that rather than impacting everybody.
"I think getting more scores into our handicap records on a consistent basis would make the WHS stronger. I think it’s about culture. If you look at Australia – the average number of scores put in is 50 a year. They play at least once a week. We need time for our culture to evolve to a point where we are doing similar."
www.golfmonthly.com
"If I looked at pre-WHS in the UK, using our CONGU system, the average number of cards submitted was three a year per golfer. It was extremely difficult to go up or down in that system, so the handicap really wasn’t a reflection of your playing ability. But more importantly, this is a global game, not a local game, and it always seemed nonsensical that you don’t have a handicap in France which is equivalent to a handicap in Australia.
We are three years into the new WHS. We invited 40 of our most significant golfing affiliates to St Andrews last week and 37 turned up. They had a very good and extensive discussion around real feedback, not anecdotal feedback, from around the world. I am sure – and I know – that will lead to ways in which we can improve it."
R&A reveal more changes may be coming to the World Handicap System
R&A reveal more changes may be coming to the World Handicap System
www.todays-golfer.com
"I know there are some concerns in GB&I with the adequacy of General Play scores, but I’m a huge advocate of General Play scores," said Slumbers. "I think there should be more being put in."
"I’ve had a number of discussions with organisations in GB&I who have reservations about them and I disagree. A lot of the reservations are around a small number of individuals who are putting in scores either too low or too high, and we should be trying to address that rather than impacting everybody.
"I think getting more scores into our handicap records on a consistent basis would make the WHS stronger. I think it’s about culture. If you look at Australia – the average number of scores put in is 50 a year. They play at least once a week. We need time for our culture to evolve to a point where we are doing similar."
World Handicap System: R&A Chief Calls For More General Play Score Submissions
R&A Chief Executive Martin Slumbers discusses the World Handicap System as The R&A and USGA outline changes for 2024
www.golfmonthly.com
KenL
Tour Rookie
Average cards was 3 a year? Seriously? I have never submitted less than 30 cards in a year going back to about 2000.
Was Slumbers just looking at the likes of Muirfield?
Was Slumbers just looking at the likes of Muirfield?
wjemather
Well-known member
Probably most relevant to this thread (about manipulation): "A lot of the reservations are around a small number of individuals who are putting in scores either too low or too high, and we should be trying to address that rather than impacting everybody."What Martin Slumbers has actually said:
"If I looked at pre-WHS in the UK, using our CONGU system, the average number of cards submitted was three a year per golfer. It was extremely difficult to go up or down in that system, so the handicap really wasn’t a reflection of your playing ability. But more importantly, this is a global game, not a local game, and it always seemed nonsensical that you don’t have a handicap in France which is equivalent to a handicap in Australia.
We are three years into the new WHS. We invited 40 of our most significant golfing affiliates to St Andrews last week and 37 turned up. They had a very good and extensive discussion around real feedback, not anecdotal feedback, from around the world. I am sure – and I know – that will lead to ways in which we can improve it."
R&A reveal more changes may be coming to the World Handicap System
R&A reveal more changes may be coming to the World Handicap Systemwww.todays-golfer.com
"I know there are some concerns in GB&I with the adequacy of General Play scores, but I’m a huge advocate of General Play scores," said Slumbers. "I think there should be more being put in."
"I’ve had a number of discussions with organisations in GB&I who have reservations about them and I disagree. A lot of the reservations are around a small number of individuals who are putting in scores either too low or too high, and we should be trying to address that rather than impacting everybody.
"I think getting more scores into our handicap records on a consistent basis would make the WHS stronger. I think it’s about culture. If you look at Australia – the average number of scores put in is 50 a year. They play at least once a week. We need time for our culture to evolve to a point where we are doing similar."
World Handicap System: R&A Chief Calls For More General Play Score Submissions
R&A Chief Executive Martin Slumbers discusses the World Handicap System as The R&A and USGA outline changes for 2024
wjemather
Well-known member
Given how many players did not engage with handicapping and competitions at all (many still don't), an average of 3 a year sounds about right.
AussieKB
Well-known member
That would not get you a mention out here.
AussieKB
Well-known member
Can someone wake Slumbers up please.......in OZ we play all year round because we have the weather for it.....so 50 cards a year is nothing, I average 150 cards a year and I'm not an oddity, and I have never met anyone who has put in a GP card in OZ.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Given they have been using this system in other countries for a long time why Havnt they addressed this before and come up with an answer to the manipulation problem ?
They have had the time to think of a solution
Or is it only in GB &I there’s a problem.?
