Handicap calculation confusion- is it epidemic within clubs?

[turkish]

The only reason I know about calculating handicaps properly via stableford points is from being on here but it astounds me how many long term players and even Cat 1 players know very little on how to do it.

A lot of players I speak to say any high scores just round down to a double bogey but does this work in the same way with stableford points? I wouldn't think so when a par on some par 4's can be different points than other par 4's. I've also had others say an NR is an automatic 0.1 increase (when it's not)

There's also very little literature on it- online or even in the club diary/website. twice when I have played this year I have had to manually adjust my handicap before the system does it and because I know how to do it I am ok- but how many people out there don't do it properly?

An example of this is a doubles tie I played at the weekend- on that week one of the players said he thinks he's went up 0.1 (and thus a full stroke as put him up to .5) as he NR'd a hole (although he did say he played ok the rest of the round) with a supplementary card- I said well you can still buffer or even get a cut with an NR so they went to the pro shop and the pro just said if you are confident you have went up 0.1 then you adjust accordingly it doesn't matter what the computer says..... today the system still shows he is on original handicap.

I don't think the player was at it- I think he simply didn't know how to calculate properly and he was a single digit player.

I think there should be widely available information for players on how to do it properly and should be in print in club diarys/websites.

GM could even do an article on it as it's something all players should really know- not just for self adjustments but so they can work out how they are doing, or after the round what their expected cuts should be given CSS.

 

[patricks148]

sounds to me like he played off the wrong handicap. i was under the impression you couldn't self adjust up if the results had not been published.

not sure its that complicated at all, most guys i play with all know what there handicap score will be during the round.

you get it rounded down to double if you are not getting a shot from my understanding, so if you score a 7 on a par 4 and you receive a shot its still a 7, etc

 

[turkish]

but surely this rounding down idea just makes things more complicated- if you just go by stableford scores it's fairly straightforward? 36 points and CSS as standard you are level par, 37 cut one increment etc?

 

[patricks148]

but surely this rounding down idea just makes things more complicated- if you just go by stableford scores it's fairly straightforward? 36 points and CSS as standard you are level par, 37 cut one increment etc?

not necessarily, ive made buffer and had cuts at my place scoring less than 36 points, in fact 36 point will win it for you most of the time

 

[Hosel Fade]

The only reason I know about calculating handicaps properly via stableford points is from being on here but it astounds me how many long term players and even Cat 1 players know very little on how to do it.

A lot of players I speak to say any high scores just round down to a double bogey but does this work in the same way with stableford points? I wouldn't think so when a par on some par 4's can be different points than other par 4's. I've also had others s<script id="gpt-impl-0.5656671333504085" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_92.js"></script>ay an NR is an automatic 0.1 increase (when it's not)

There's also very little literature on it- online or even in the club diary/website. twice when I have played this year I have had to manually adjust my handicap before the system does it and because I know how to do it I am ok- but how many people out there don't do it properly?

An example of this is a doubles tie I played at the weekend- on that week one of the players said he thinks he's went up 0.1 (and thus a full stroke as put him up to .5) as he NR'd a hole (although he did say he played ok the rest of the round) with a supplementary card- I said well you can still buffer or even get a cut with an NR so they went to the pro shop and the pro just said if you are confident you have went up 0.1 then you adjust accordingly it doesn't matter what the computer says..... today the system still shows he is on original handicap.

I don't think the player was at it- I think he simply didn't know how to calculate properly and he was a single digit player.

I think there should be widely available information for players on how to do it properly and should be in print in club diarys/websites.

GM could even do an article on it as it's something all players should really know- not just for self adjustments but so they can work out how they are doing, or after the round what their expected cuts should be given CSS.

You never self adjust upwards, that is the first matter

Next issue is that you are correct in saying that you can get still get cut or buffer from an NR

The simplest way of explaining it is to just treat it as a stableford, effectively its the same thing just with a bit of a bigger number calaculating around the SSS rather than 36 or whatever level is around your place when you compare par to SSS

 

[turkish]

That's what I mean though you've had cuts but that's relevant to CSS isn't it?

for my Cat the buffer zone is 4 strokes so 32 on standard CSS

 

[Hosel Fade]

That's what I mean though you've had cuts but that's relevant to CSS isn't it?

for my Cat the buffer zone is 4 strokes so 32 on standard CSS

Depends, on a really tough course with a super high SSS you wouldn't need a CSS change to get cut with 34 or 35. Would be rare though, normally for SSS to be two over par they are established tournament venues with a back set of tees behind the medals that they maybe use twice a year

 

[turkish]

I know- I was talking in generality when SSS = par but my main point is there is too much confusion among a lot of players. And that there should be standardised literature on it printed in club diarys/websites.

When I was new to the game I didn't have a clue but because I am total golf geek I read everything but friends who are less geeky still don't know how to do it.

Maybe it's just my club but there are a lot of players that don't know how to calculate properly.

 

[Region3]

As others have said, you never adjust yourself upwards, you need to wait for the official change.

When you adjust yourself downwards (if you play again before the comp is closed and handicaps adjusted), you base your score against standard scratch if the competition scratch isn't yet known.

As for rounding big scores down, they're rounded down to a nett double bogey, so in effect it is exactly the same as working out your stableford score, because a nett double bogey is the lowest score you can get 0 points for.

 

[virtuocity]

Maybe it's just my club but there are a lot of players that don't know how to calculate properly.

Nope- happens in loads of places bud. I've had 3 separate conversions where I've had to take time to convince people that you can still hit buffer, or even get a cut after N/Ring.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's more commonplace in Scotland where it seems Stableford is more of a novelty event, rather than the Saturday morning norm. Here, we tend to add our score, take off our handicap and smile or frown dependent on that calculation.

 

[turkish]

Again this makes my point- I wasn't aware you couldn't adjust up- apparently neither did our club pro or opponents who were off 5 and 8(adjusted to 9). Luckily both times I done mine this season were down the way or I would have unknowingly cheated.

Standardised literature for club members would stop things like this. There's not enough information out there to make things clear for golfers.

 

[virtuocity]

We got an email out on the 14th about this:

It is the responsibility of the player, to apply a handicap reduction if he/she returns a qualifying score below his/her handicap. This includes Away, Supplementary scores, and scores from Medal competitions that have not been closed, or results published.

In the absence of a CSS, the SSS of the course must be used to calculate any reduction.
This reduction must be applied prior to playing in another competition, including Match Play ties. The penalty for playing off a higher handicap than appropriate is disqualification.

The following is an extract from The CONGU Unified Handicapping System Manual.

20.11 If a player returns a Qualifying Score or Scores below his Playing Handicap at his Home Club or away and is unable to: (a) report an away score(s) to his Home Club or (b) ascertain whether or not his Playing Handicap has been reduced as a result of the score(s) he must, before playing in another competition at his Home Club or away, for that competition make such reduction to his Playing Handicap as shall be appropriate under the UHS (Unified Handicapping System) by applying the Competition Scratch Score if known, otherwise the Standard Scratch Score, to calculate his Nett Differential and handicap reduction. Should a player not know his Exact Handicap, such reduction should be made from his Playing Handicap less 0.5, (e.g. If Playing Handicap is 6 then reduction should be from 5.5).
Note: Handicap reductions only shall be applied under this sub-clause. Handicap increases may only be made by a player’s Home Club after scores have been duly reported and published in accordance with Clause 20.9.

The Handicap Committee

 

[USER1999]

Nope- happens in loads of places bud. I've had 3 separate conversions where I've had to take time to convince people that you can still hit buffer, or even get a cut after N/Ring.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's more commonplace in Scotland where it seems Stableford is more of a novelty event, rather than the Saturday morning norm. Here, we tend to add our score, take off our handicap and smile or frown dependent on that calculation.

Why is it assumed that everyone south of the border only plays stableford? They are pretty rare at my place, except in the depths of winter. All summer weekend comps are medal, or twice a year, bogey.

 

[virtuocity]

Why is it assumed that everyone south of the border only plays stableford? They are pretty rare at my place, except in the depths of winter. All summer weekend comps are medal, or twice a year, bogey.

I would guess that Stableford is more commonplace in England than in Scotland. I have no facts to back this up, other than the chat on here.

Whether people are playing in Stableford format or not, it seems quite obvious that much more English, than Scottish forum users report scores to the forum in points form, rather than net / gross scores. This indicates to me that knowledge and familiarity with stableford scoring, amongst the GM Forum population seems to be greater in England. In turn, this would suggest that folks darn sarf would be more comfortable making post-round, pre-announcement handicap calculations based on points than the Scottish hacker.

 

[Colin L]

Nope- happens in loads of places bud. I've had 3 separate conversions where I've had to take time to convince people that you can still hit buffer, or even get a cut after N/Ring.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's more commonplace in Scotland where it seems Stableford is more of a novelty event, rather than the Saturday morning norm. Here, we tend to add our score, take off our handicap and smile or frown dependent on that calculation.

Are you mixing up the basis on which the results of a competition are calculated where you might have a stroke competition or a stableford competition and the basis on which handicap adjustments are made? Scores are aways subject to a nett double bogey adjustment for handicap adjustments, a nett double bogey being the lowest score that would not gain a stableford point..

 

[williamalex1]

It's even more complicated when playing away comps. Where the visitors CSS can be 2 or 3 strokes more than home players CSS, sometimes it can take a day or so to find out.
If you work it out using the SSS , you could possibly be 3 or 4 strokes out with your calculation.

 

[virtuocity]

Are you mixing up the basis on which the results of a competition are calculated where you might have a stroke competition or a stableford competition and the basis on which handicap adjustments are made? Scores are aways subject to a nett double bogey adjustment for handicap adjustments, a nett double bogey being the lowest score that would not gain a stableford point..

I know this- don't know where I've not demonstrated knowledge of this tbh!

Anyway, this is off topic now.

 

[patricks148]

I would guess that Stableford is more commonplace in England than in Scotland. I have no facts to back this up, other than the chat on here.

Whether people are playing in Stableford format or not, it seems quite obvious that much more English, than Scottish forum users report scores to the forum in points form, rather than net / gross scores. This indicates to me that knowledge and familiarity with stableford scoring, amongst the GM Forum population seems to be greater in England. In turn, this would suggest that folks darn sarf would be more comfortable making post-round, pre-announcement handicap calculations based on points than the Scottish hacker.

We don't have a single stableford comp on a Saturday at my club... i don't think Tain did either when i was a member there.

no relevance to this threat, but juts thought i would mention it

 

[Val]

To answer the question, many mid and high HC players tend to be unaware of how an NR or high number affects their HC, Cat 1's tend to know exactly and yes it's pretty common for people to expect a 0.1 for an NR.

 

[MendieGK]

I agree that most people don't know. I actually use it to my advantage.

All of our comps are medals, so if i start badly (for example a treble on the first), i just say to myself 'thats a double'. It helps that i couldnt care less how i get on in the actual comp. my competition is against myself and my handicap, nothing else.

my mate had an 11 on our 3rd on saturday, but once he'd hit his 7th shot i just said 'dont worry' its a 7 for handicap.