Golf Club Ownership Models

[Biggleswade Blue]

I know there are different types of golf club. I've seen talk of Members' Clubs, Proprietary Clubs, Incorporated Clubs and Unincorporated Clubs.

On this rainy Monday(!) can people set out the basics of each type, what would dictate which type of club you have, and the advantages and disadvantages of each?

 

[rulefan]

Generalisation.

Propriety. Owned by an outside business. Often hotel chains. Local landowner who built a course on his land. Other chains of course owners. ie they are the Proprietors. Clubs pay a fee to the Proprietor for use of the course but run competitions, bookings etc themselves

Members'. Owned, run and managed by the Members themselves.

Incorporated, 'unincorporated' - your best bet is to check the legal definition out on google or wikipedia etc. But in effect it protects the individual members from certain legal liabilities.

 

[jim8flog]

We are a members club there is both a Limited Company (for things financial and legal) to which we are all shareholders but with limited personal liability and a Golf Club for golfing matters.

The biggest advantage is that if we are really upset by the way the club is run by the directors and manager if we can get enough other members to support it we can call an EGM to discuss the matter.

Most major projects have an EGM called and members get to vote on whether or not to proceed.

The general running of the club, course, financially and legally, is done by a manager appointed by the Board of Directors who have been voted in to position by the members.

We have a Captain's Committee as first port of call for members who set things like Rules of the club. competitions tee times, dress rules etc all committee members are voted on to it by the members.

As per Traminator Committees can be a bit of long event just to get one thing through but it does work if committee members remember they are there for the benefit of the majority of the members.

 

[IanM]

and also

- Propriatory: Ultimately it is about making a profit.

- Member Owned: Only about golf!

But, either can of course be done really well or really badly!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

and also

- Propriatory: Ultimately it is about making a profit.

- Member Owned: Only about golf!

But, either can of course be done really well or really badly!

Propriatory - The best way to make a profit is to have a very good course, clubhouse, atmosphere so that people want to go and play there, be a member. Some owners realise this, others just look short term and end up alienating the members. The theory is good but like lots of theories, not always succesful in practice.

Having played at both I would say the best model is a members club with a professional golf manager running it. Just my opinion.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...

Having played at both I would say the best model is a members club with a professional golf manager running it. Just my opinion.

This ^^^ A few years ago we tried having our Professional move into the Club Business Manager side. But he was at heart a golf pro. I don't think he enjoyed it and frankly don't think he had the business mindset required for a 21st century golf club.

We have a relatively young Golf Club Management professional at the helm now, and from what I see and hear he does seem to know what it's all about and what is needed. And with him not being a 'senior', prospective new members in their 20s and 30s will relate to him - and he to them.

 

[Robster59]

Ours is a members club but it has a board of management, which comprises of a number of volunteers for the different roles (Director, finance, house, greens, marketing). The Captain also sits on the BoM as does the Club Manager. They normally sit on "directors" normally sit for 2 years at a time then have to be re-elected to the role at the AGM. They have some autonomy for decisions and provide continuity which can be lost when the Captain is making the decision from year-to-year and so the path of the club can vary depending upon the whims of the individual captains.
It also spreads the weight of the decision making process better. We've had this running now for about 6 years and I'd say as a model it seems to work pretty well.

 

[dronfield]

I have been a member of 3 "members " clubs & 1 privately owned "propriety" club.

The propriety club was very much run as a business model, keen to ensure that all tee times were filled & not really operated in the interests of members ie, a large society booking would be accepted in the middle of a Saturday morning (causing slow play etc). Additionally, it was noticeable that certain work was not undertaken on the course because it may not bring in an immediate cash return eg, improvements to fairway bunkers. However, because the owner was keen to keep the course busy, there were several attractive deals available re different types of membership - cost per round could be as low as £14. There was a driving range attached, but you did have to buy balls, as opposed to using your own on a practice ground.

The members clubs (of which I am still a member of one), are very much more operated in the interests of the membership as opposed to purely profit, with restrictions on visiting groups times, and a very good level of communication advising what work is being undertaken on the course, short /long term improvement plans etc However, this does come at a cost & 7 day membership is around £300pa more than at the propriety club. The club has good practice facilities and a good social side - something that was missing at the propriety club.

In the current climate, members clubs are having to introduce more types of flexible membership - the traditional 5/7 day model does not suit everyone. There is the option at our club to buy 20 rounds for £420 and, should you want to play more golf, you could use Golfnow to play on other courses in the area.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the other things about a members club is that some like ours will ask the members to dig in to our pockets to finance major projects.

During the 30+ years I have been here I have helped to
Build a new 9 hole course
Extend the club house
Modernise the club house
Modernise the changing rooms
Build a new proshop and Secretary's office (twice)
Turn the practice ground in to a driving range

Sometimes it gets treated as a loan and we get the money back sometime down the line.

 

[rulefan]

We are a members club there is both a Limited Company (for things financial and legal) to which we are all shareholders but with limited personal liability and a Golf Club for golfing matters.

The biggest advantage is that if we are really upset by the way the club is run by the directors and manager if we can get enough other members to support it we can call an EGM to discuss the matter.

Most major projects have an EGM called and members get to vote on whether or not to proceed.

The general running of the club, course, financially and legally, is done by a manager appointed by the Board of Directors who have been voted in to position by the members.

We have a Captain's Committee as first port of call for members who set things like Rules of the club. competitions tee times, dress rules etc all committee members are voted on to it by the members.

As per Traminator Committees can be a bit of long event just to get one thing through but it does work if committee members remember they are there for the benefit of the majority of the members.

That sounds like the club is Incorporated.

Ours is a members club but it has a board of management, which comprises of a number of volunteers for the different roles (Director, finance, house, greens, marketing). The Captain also sits on the BoM as does the Club Manager. They normally sit on "directors" normally sit for 2 years at a time then have to be re-elected to the role at the AGM. They have some autonomy for decisions and provide continuity which can be lost when the Captain is making the decision from year-to-year and so the path of the club can vary depending upon the whims of the individual captains.
It also spreads the weight of the decision making process better. We've had this running now for about 6 years and I'd say as a model it seems to work pretty well.

As does this.

Your club manager will have a copy of the Memorandum and Articles of Association. Or you can confirm it by looking at the paperwork issued before or at any General Meeting (ie Annual or Extraordinary).

 

[Robster59]

That sounds like the club is Incorporated.

As does this.

Your club manager will have a copy of the Memorandum and Articles of Association. Or you can confirm it by looking at the paperwork issued before or at any General Meeting (ie Annual or Extraordinary).

I'vee just checked the definition, we're not.
The Board of Management are all unpaid volunteers with no financial input in the club apart from standard members fees.

 

[Biggleswade Blue]

Thanks everyone. Interesting reading.
If a members club goes into administration, who’s responsible for the debts? Anyone had this happen - ie been a member when it closes? And how does it work for funding major projects as suggested above. If you choose not to, are you kicked out?

Not worried about any of these things, just curious.

Presumably, if a proprietary club goes bust or shuts, you as a member just lose your subs.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Thanks everyone. Interesting reading.
If a members club goes into administration, who’s responsible for the debts? Anyone had this happen - ie been a member when it closes? And how does it work for funding major projects as suggested above. If you choose not to, are you kicked out?

Not worried about any of these things, just curious.

Presumably, if a proprietary club goes bust or shuts, you as a member just lose your subs.

I can only answer your last paragraph. Yes, correct. The members have no liability. In effect they are customers only, nothing more.

Think of them as similar to season ticket holders at a football club. If the club goes under your ticket is defunct but you are not asked to bake out the club.

 

[rulefan]

I'vee just checked the definition, we're not.

Definition of what?

The Board of Management are all unpaid volunteers with no financial input in the club apart from standard members fees.

That makes no difference.
Does the club own the course and buildings etc?

 

[Robster59]

Definition of what?


That makes no difference.
Does the club own the course and buildings etc?

Yes, they are owned by the club.

 

[jim8flog]

That sounds like the club is Incorporated.

I would not know the difference between and a incorporated club and a members club that is a limited company for some aspects. If it does make a difference all directors have to be members and are unpaid volunteers.
Our Articles of Association say we are incorporated under the companies Act 1948

 

[jim8flog]

Thanks everyone. Interesting reading.
If a members club goes into administration, who’s responsible for the debts? Anyone had this happen - ie been a member when it closes? And how does it work for funding major projects as suggested above. If you choose not to, are you kicked out?

Not worried about any of these things, just curious.

Presumably, if a proprietary club goes bust or shuts, you as a member just lose your subs.

Where I play we are highly unlikely to go in to administration and leave debt, the assets are so relatively big compared to the sort of debt we are likely yo have run up. However if it were to happen it would be there would be no real liability to members as our Articles of Association limit such to £1.

As to not being willing to fund projects it is simple we incorporate it to the fee required to be paid when renewals are due. If you do not pay the renewal fee you are no longer a member. The charge sometimes has been spread over a 5 year period if a player cannot afford it in one go. The largest amount I have been asked for is £300.

 

[jim8flog]

There is one type of club that has not been mentioned and that is a CASC club

Community Amateur Sports Club

Is anybodies club one of these.

Our Directors tried to get this through but it was turned down by the members.

 

[rulefan]

Yes, they are owned by the club.

But what is the definition you referred to?

 

[Robster59]

But what is the definition you referred to?

I just looked up the definition of an incorporated club on the internet. I've also asked our Club Manager. We're not.