Driver distance/speed con

[Tommygun16]

Interested to hear from anyone who has genuinely worked hard and seen a measurable improvement in their driver distance. Preferably backed up with trackman data. [edit - as it seems to have confused some, I'm interested to hear your experiences only, not asking anyone to prove anything - peace!]

3 years ago I started golf and in winter conditions I could only carry driver 150 yards. It jumped to 180 in the summer. I initially thought this increase was my technique improving, but it was more than likely just the better warmer conditions.

For the past 18 months I have done 'everything right' to try and improve club head speed and distance:

Physical: Going to the gym regularly and seeing a personal trainer for better strength, flexibility, speed.
Technique: I've seen a couple of new pros and had several lessons to work on any flaws.
Effort: I've hit over 4,500 balls at the local range, practicing technique and lesson advice.
Equipment: Same Cobra, it's only a couple of years old, it's fine.

Distance gained: zero.

My average driver carry remains around 180. With roll, in the summer on a nice hot day, I might get 210 total. But more often than not it's around 180-190 ish. Into wind it's often 150-160. In fact I'm shorter this summer than in the two previous summers.

For context my swing speed was measured by one of the pros using speedsticks/radar. Using the heavy stick, which is 5% heavier than driver, I could get to 95-100mph. So apparently I'm capable. But this is not apparent in the balls I hit. And for someone of my build/weight to try and reach that swing speed, I am flailing my arms all over the place. Stockier, taller, heavier, rugby types can probably do it whilst remaining stable. I cannot.

Starting to feel like the distance gained industry is a con. Athletes can do it, sure. For mere mortals like me, who are on the wrong side of 40, it doesn't seem achievable. I think each of us has a physical baseline and that is that, there is very little you can do to change it.

 

[bobmac]

Hard to pinpoint the problem without seeing your swing.
A common cause is lack of wrist hinge on the backswing.
Are you getting 90 deg hinge between your shaft and arm?

 

[Tommygun16]

Hard to pinpoint the problem without seeing your swing.
A common cause is lack of wrist hinge on the backswing.
Are you getting 90 deg hinge between your shaft and arm?

View attachment 54464

I'd need to film myself again, but I can confidently say as someone who has tried everything, I have certainly had sessions on the range where I am turning and hinging as much as possible.

 

[garyinderry]

If you can move a speed stick 100mph there is something seriously wrong with hitting it 180 yards.

Post a swing video and things may become clearer.

 

[Tommygun16]

If you can move a speed stick 100mph there is something seriously wrong with hitting it 180 yards.

Post a swing video and things may become clearer.

Appreciate it certainly looks that way. But 3yrs of trying different techniques and hitting it however the pros want me to, curious to know what you think you'll see that they haven't already? After all this time I thought I might hit the odd one just right, out of the middle, with enough hinge or more turn or with better launch etc, whatever the magic elixir is, to throw it out there 220+. Not happened. Most of the pros do end up just telling me to just swing faster. But that does not translate into either ball speed or the ball actually going anywhere. The only constant in this sea of changing variables is me and my physical ability to transfer power into the ball.

 

[chico]

Appreciate it certainly looks that way. But 3yrs of trying different techniques and hitting it however the pros want me to, curious to know what you think you'll see that they haven't already? After all this time I thought I might hit the odd one just right, out of the middle, with enough hinge or more turn or with better launch etc, whatever the magic elixir is, to throw it out there 220+. Not happened. Most of the pros do end up just telling me to just swing faster. But that does not translate into either ball speed or the ball actually going anywhere. The only constant in this sea of changing variables is me and my physical ability to transfer power into the ball.

Swing faster is only a solution with the right setup. Has your pro looked at all the factors?

 

[garyinderry]

Appreciate it certainly looks that way. But 3yrs of trying different techniques and hitting it however the pros want me to, curious to know what you think you'll see that they haven't already? After all this time I thought I might hit the odd one just right, out of the middle, with enough hinge or more turn or with better launch etc, whatever the magic elixir is, to throw it out there 220+. Not happened. Most of the pros do end up just telling me to just swing faster. But that does not translate into either ball speed or the ball actually going anywhere. The only constant in this sea of changing variables is me and my physical ability to transfer power into the ball.

I've seen enough swings at this stage to tell you if there's something seriously funky going on.

Ideally the videos would be face on and down the line. Let's people see the swing and set up.

 

[Crow]

Posting a video is the best way for people to spot any possible errors and then give you worthwhile advice, what you've said so far are just general points and don't help in the analysis of your individual swing.

 

[Tommygun16]

Posting a video is the best way for people to spot any possible errors and then give you worthwhile advice, what you've said so far are just general points and don't help in the analysis of your individual swing.

Agree, only concern is youtube is fully of PGA qualified pros who in one video will tell you to turn more and another will say to restrict the lower half more. Every possible variable will be contradicted somewhere. I'll see if I can get a video and put it up, but I am doing what the lessons have told me to do and they just say swing faster!

 

[Tommygun16]

Swing faster is only a solution with the right setup. Has your pro looked at all the factors?

I'm guessing so, I do what they tell me to do, they're happy with the ball flight, launch etc. Then just say swing faster.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm guessing so, I do what they tell me to do, they're happy with the ball flight, launch etc. Then just say swing faster.

All that happens when I try and swing faster is that I disconnect the component parts of my swing, and so for all the added effort I input, the output is the same - or indeed less.

What is proving crucial for me is getting my address position correct, and then keeping everything connected as I swing the club, gradually looking to increase the force with which I hit the ball. And whilst ball strike force and swing speed are obviously related, for me it is more important to focus on how I can increase my strike force without thinking much, if at all, about increasing my swing speed.

ETA: And I should add that I realised yesterday that, with my driver especially, I have not been addressing the ball with the centre of the sweet spot area of the club face. Over time this has become more evident as I can now see where most strikes are…and they are way too far towards the toe and quite high on the club face. A quick adjustment mid-round yesterday saw me immediately hit some better strikes.

 

[Maninblack4612]

If you're getting 95 to 100mph you should be hitting it further than you are. Is it possible that you're generating too much backspin? Have you had backspin measured on a launch monitor? What does the ball flight look like, a rainbow or an increasing rise followed by a vertical drop? It's possible that the shaft you're using is unsuitable & either launching too high / low or creating too much backspin. I would be very interested to see launch monitor figures.

 

[bobmac]

There's only 5 things in golf that directly affect the ball.
In no specific order....
1. Clubface direction at impact.
2. Hitting the sweet spot.
3. Swing path
4. Angle of attack
5. Speed

From what you've said, the pros seem happy with 1-4 but they all seem to say you need more speed.
I'm wondering if you don't trust yourself to swing faster for fear of losing 1-4.
2 other things...
Are you using range balls, some of them are rubbish and go nowhere
Do you know your smash factor?....that tells you how much energy is being transferred to the ball.
It will be a number like 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3. Ideally it will be 1.4 or 1.5
If you can swing at close to 100 mph, there's no reason why you cant carry 210 -220yds assuming 1-4 don't change

If you're getting 95 to 100mph you should be hitting it further than you are. Is it possible that you're generating too much backspin? Have you had backspin measured on a launch monitor? What does the ball flight look like, a rainbow or an increasing rise followed by a vertical drop? It's possible that the shaft you're using is unsuitable & either launching too high / low or creating too much backspin. I would be very interested to see launch monitor figures.

Unlikely as the pros have said they are happy with the ball flight, launch etc

 

[Maninblack4612]

There's only 5 things in golf that directly affect the ball.
In no specific order....
1. Clubface direction at impact.
2. Hitting the sweet spot.
3. Swing path
4. Angle of attack
5. Speed

From what you've said, the pros seem happy with 1-4 but they all seem to say you need more speed.
I'm wondering if you don't trust yourself to swing faster for fear of losing 1-4.
2 other things...
Are you using range balls, some of them are rubbish and go nowhere
Do you know your smash factor?....that tells you how much energy is being transferred to the ball.
It will be a number like 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3. Ideally it will be 1.4 or 1.5
If you can swing at close to 100 mph, there's no reason why you cant carry 210 -220yds assuming 1-4 don't change

Unlikely as the pros have said they are happy with the ball flight, launch etc

Well, there should be something in the launch monitor figures to explain. All 5 of your points above can be measured. Has a pro, competent in the use of a launch monitor, examined the numbers?

 

[Golf is fun]

Interested to hear from anyone who has genuinely worked hard and seen a measurable improvement in their driver distance. Preferably backed up with trackman data.

3 years ago I started golf and in winter conditions I could only carry driver 150 yards. It jumped to 180 in the summer. I initially thought this increase was my technique improving, but it was more than likely just the better warmer conditions.

For the past 18 months I have done 'everything right' to try and improve club head speed and distance:

Physical: Going to the gym regularly and seeing a personal trainer for better strength, flexibility, speed.
Technique: I've seen a couple of new pros and had several lessons to work on any flaws.
Effort: I've hit over 4,500 balls at the local range, practicing technique and lesson advice.
Equipment: Same Cobra, it's only a couple of years old, it's fine.

Distance gained: zero.

My average driver carry remains around 180. With roll, in the summer on a nice hot day, I might get 210 total. But more often than not it's around 180-190 ish. Into wind it's often 150-160. In fact I'm shorter this summer than in the two previous summers.

For context my swing speed was measured by one of the pros using speedsticks/radar. Using the heavy stick, which is 5% heavier than driver, I could get to 95-100mph. So apparently I'm capable. But this is not apparent in the balls I hit. And for someone of my build/weight to try and reach that swing speed, I am flailing my arms all over the place. Stockier, taller, heavier, rugby types can probably do it whilst remaining stable. I cannot.

Starting to feel like the distance gained industry is a con. Athletes can do it, sure. For mere mortals like me, who are on the wrong side of 40, it doesn't seem achievable. I think each of us has a physical baseline and that is that, there is very little you can do to change it.

I'd suggest rather than asking others to prove with data what they have achieved, you apply the same principle to yourself. You claim to have done everything right, do you have the data to back this up?

1. Are your gym stats up, and also up in a meaningful way. Going from lifting 5kg to 10kg, or gaining 1 degree of range of motion is an increase but may not have any meaningful impact.
2. You talk about having lessons, but have you actually successfully implemented what the lessons covered? Do you have trackman data showing your swing path, face angle, attack angle etc.. have moved closer towards optimum numbers?
3. Effort is only useful if it's productive, otherwise it's just a waste of energy, are your sessions focused and performed with intent, or are you going for quantity over quality? This applies to everything from gym workouts to golf technique sessions.

I don't say any of the above as an attack, I realise the internet can make it easy to misinterpret tone. I say it because it doesn't really matter what anyone else has done or what their numbers are, all we can do as individuals is strive to be the best we can be. We all have genetic limits and maybe your potential for distance is lower, but it's unlikely you are even close to currently maxing out your potential, especially as it is known that you can swing a club at 100mph.

 

[VVega]

With all respect, sounds like a good troll… “I’ve done everything but it doesn’t work” yet no data to support anything.

Quoting his own single session of speed stick/radar (very basic) but asking others to prove him otherwise “preferably backed up with trackman data”.

If the pros say swing faster, most likely the real swing isn’t nearly comparable to the speed registered with the speed stick.

TLDR having a session with a pro with the launch monitor and getting the real data would be much more helpful than posting about “speed con” on a golf forum

 

[pendodave]

TLDR having a session with a pro with the launch monitor and getting the real data would be much more helpful than posting about “speed con” on a golf forum

Yep.
Don't even need a pro really, just a range with a launch monitor.
Driver distance is a pretty well researched combination of club head speed, smash factor and launch angle. 5 minutes should be enough to see what the problem is.

 

[VVega]

Yep.
Don't even need a pro really, just a range with a launch monitor.
Driver distance is a pretty well researched combination of club head speed, smash factor and launch angle. 5 minutes should be enough to see what the problem is.

The trackman/GC2/Quad can help more as show the true strike location/club face/path/spin. The driving range once are ok once you know what you are working on (e.g. launch angle), in my opinion.

 

[Tommygun16]

With all respect, sounds like a good troll… “I’ve done everything but it doesn’t work” yet no data to support anything.

Quoting his own single session of speed stick/radar (very basic) but asking others to prove him otherwise “preferably backed up with trackman data”.

If the pros say swing faster, most likely the real swing isn’t nearly comparable to the speed registered with the speed stick.

TLDR having a session with a pro with the launch monitor and getting the real data would be much more helpful than posting about “speed con” on a golf forum

I've not asked anyone to prove anything to me and nor would I. My opening line was interested to hear from others who have worked hard and increased their driver distance (preferably with measurable data) not just feeling like it's better. No need to prove it, just interested to know if people have seen genuine distance gains.

The misrepresentation of my entire post is fitting with your general remarks. I've told you what I've done with little impact, including the swing speed sticks and what the pros are telling me. Troll is a petty comment and better attributed to yourself. Nothing further requested from yourself thanks.

 

[Tommygun16]

I'd suggest rather than asking others to prove with data what they have achieved, you apply the same principle to yourself. You claim to have done everything right, do you have the data to back this up?

1. Are your gym stats up, and also up in a meaningful way. Going from lifting 5kg to 10kg, or gaining 1 degree of range of motion is an increase but may not have any meaningful impact.
2. You talk about having lessons, but have you actually successfully implemented what the lessons covered? Do you have trackman data showing your swing path, face angle, attack angle etc.. have moved closer towards optimum numbers?
3. Effort is only useful if it's productive, otherwise it's just a waste of energy, are your sessions focused and performed with intent, or are you going for quantity over quality? This applies to everything from gym workouts to golf technique sessions.

I don't say any of the above as an attack, I realise the internet can make it easy to misinterpret tone. I say it because it doesn't really matter what anyone else has done or what their numbers are, all we can do as individuals is strive to be the best we can be. We all have genetic limits and maybe your potential for distance is lower, but it's unlikely you are even close to currently maxing out your potential, especially as it is known that you can swing a club at 100mph.

To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to prove anything to me. As per my opening question, I'm genuinely interested to know if people have worked hard and seen measurable gains (rather than just feels etc). Interested to hear experiences, nothing more.