For a ‘standard’ full shot. How fast does a typical tour pro swing?

[Slab]

And I don’t mean swing speed or club head speed or the other metrics we usually see on screen. I mean in relation to how fast an individual Pro is physically able to swing (without being silly/unstable) how fast are they swinging for a typical controlled/stable full shot with driver/iron during play?

So if an individual Pro’s fastest controlled swing is 100% what % are the doing for full shots during a tournament and how do we think that compares to a club golfer, if we knew our own fastest controlled swing V typical swing during a round?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

And I don’t mean swing speed or club head speed or the other metrics we usually see on screen. I mean in relation to how fast an individual Pro is physically able to swing (without being silly/unstable) how fast are they swinging for a typical controlled/stable full shot with driver/iron during play?

So if an individual Pro’s fastest controlled swing is 100% what % are the doing for full shots during a tournament and how do we think that compares to a club golfer, if we knew our own fastest controlled swing V typical swing during a round?

Weirdly I listened to a Crossfield hack it out podcast in the car on Sunday it was exactly about this. Lou Stagner had the stats as usual and Greg Chalmers mentioned how guys on tour usually work out at the start of each week how far the ball goes in the conditions if they “step on” one and then work backwards to what their 80%(ish) yardages are and tend to swing and play to those for control.

Even weirder watched a Chris Dennis YouTube video yesterday he’s doing a series with Jig Thompson on his road back to playing tour golf after a 2nd bout of Leukaemia. He also mentioned when warming up he works out roughly what his 80% feels are and try’s to take that to the course.

 

[Slab]

Weirdly I listened to a Crossfield hack it out podcast in the car on Sunday it was exactly about this. Lou Stagner had the stats as usual and Greg Chalmers mentioned how guys on tour usually work out at the start of each week how far the ball goes in the conditions if they “step on” one and then work backwards to what their 80%(ish) yardages are and tend to swing and play to those for control.

Even weirder watched a Chris Dennis YouTube video yesterday he’s doing a series with Jig Thompson on his road back to playing tour golf after a 2nd bout of Leukaemia. He also mentioned when warming up he works out roughly what his 80% feels are and try’s to take that to the course.

Yeah I guess a simpler way to explain it is ‘stepping on it’ or how close to ‘maxing out’ are these elite players swinging for their normal full shots

Leaving aside outcome/result for a moment, I bet we’ve all played with someone who swings like they’re trying to remove the skin off the ball and also players who seem to swing well within what they could physically do

I know if I ‘step on it’ it has a much higher chance of being a bad outcome so i don't do it, so even without starting any swing speed training there’s a flaw in my swing/strike that prevents me having the option to swing faster than I do, which all means I’m not maximising the distance I’m capable of & never achieve

I realise 80% of max doesn’t relate to 20% shorter but it’ll still be a distance loss of X

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I've heard the 80-85% figure before. That seems to be more applicable to irons, wedges rather than driver. They have to be at the higher level when it comes to driver. Not all of them but Rory, Viktor, Bryson etc, whoosh

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Yeah I guess a simpler way to explain it is ‘stepping on it’ or how close to ‘maxing out’ are these elite players swinging for their normal full shots

Leaving aside outcome/result for a moment, I bet we’ve all played with someone who swings like they’re trying to remove the skin off the ball and also players who seem to swing well within what they could physically do

I know if I ‘step on it’ it has a much higher chance of being a bad outcome so i don't do it, so even without starting any swing speed training there’s a flaw in my swing/strike that prevents me having the option to swing faster than I do, which all means I’m not maximising the distance I’m capable of & never achieve

I realise 80% of max doesn’t relate to 20% shorter but it’ll still be a distance loss of X

With new coaching, training techniques etc i'd imagine they're a lot more in control as they get closer to 100% than we could realise.

Few lads at work I play with are firmly in the take the skin off the ball category and they wonder why they have no idea where it's going. I'm very much the swing within myself category, so much so i've often been told my swing looks lazy which then winds the lads at work up more when I'm hitting it past them and their hell for leather approach.

I've often wondered if you can directly correlate swing tempo to someone's personality traits. My brother is a scratch player (was lower but doesn't play and practice as much in recent years), we are similar in height but different in build. I've a very laid back out look and happy to let things happen, my brother the total opposite can't sit still always on the go and twitchy. He swings so hard and literally leathers the ball with a far greater swing speed than me but the level of golf is similar.

Re: that last point watched a really good video last night as well by Rob Cheney about gaining more distance and ball speed without having to gain clubhead speed. He went into how to maximise dynamic loft and strike to improve distance and control without swinging faster.. I think a lot of people would be off down that avenue rather than speed training and potentially ruining what they have. I've also now realised i'm consuming far to much golf content.

 

[Slab]

I've heard the 80-85% figure before. That seems to be more applicable to irons, wedges rather than driver. They have to be at the higher level when it comes to driver. Not all of them but Rory, Viktor, Bryson etc, whoosh

Yeah it was watching a YT vid of the top pros hitting driver, including those you mention and others, that prompted the post. And with driver they only just look in control, so I think its gotta be over 90% with driver and maybe closer to 95%
When I watch lpga it looks more like 80/85% but for the men I suspect its closer to max with that club

 

[Neilds]

This all ties in with the "swinging too fast" myth. As hackers, we can never swing too fast as we can't swing as fast as the professionals and will never match their speed, but we can swing too fast for our own ability.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

This all ties in with the "swinging too fast" myth. As hackers, we can never swing too fast as we can't swing as fast as the professionals and will never match their speed, but we can swing too fast for our own ability.

I completely agree with one caveat. You can't swing a club to fast but you can swing a club to hard....

Swinging hard will mean using far to much muscular effort creating to much tension in the swing which would lead to reduced clubhead speed. Whereas swinging fast with relaxed muscles and proper sequencing will create greater clubhead speed and distance but even though your faster it would look like your not swinging as fast as someone who swings hard

The old adage of "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast"

 

[Mel Smooth]

Pretty sure Marco Penge stated about 80% when doing his range talk at Ganton last year.
That would be the speed he feels comfortable of finding the target (this was with driver).
When there was space to allow him to go after one it was simply a case of teeing it up higher, hit up on it and try to keep the spin off it.

And he knows how to hit bombs

 

[irip]

I have one friend who is about 5 foot 4 and about 8 stone.
He hits the ball a mile and looks like he isn’t trying.

He always says if you want to hit the ball further hit it better not harder.

For him it’s all about technique and he looks like he has a really lazy swing but it’s the same swing pretty much every shot.

It’s only when you play something like a Texas Scramble with him when he can sometimes open his shoulders that you see the difference.
He freely admits before he hits it that it’s going a long way but no idea which direction.

The better players nearly always try to play with a large element of control

 

[nickjdavis]

I've often wondered if you can directly correlate swing tempo to someone's personality traits. My brother is a scratch player (was lower but doesn't play and practice as much in recent years), we are similar in height but different in build. I've a very laid back out look and happy to let things happen, my brother the total opposite can't sit still always on the go and twitchy. He swings so hard and literally leathers the ball with a far greater swing speed than me but the level of golf is similar.

I'd say this is pretty much spot on in the majority of cases.

Taking an example outside of golf....Alex Higgings played snooker in a way that many might say reflected his "agitated" persona....Steve Davis....the exact opposite.

In John Novosel's book Tour Tempo he talks about different individuals having different natural tempos, not necessarily in this case due obviously to their personas, but just because we all have a different tempo that we operate at. Although the vast majority of players operate on a 3:1 backswing/downswing (backswing takes 3 times longer than the downswing to impact) there are worlds of difference between a 30:10 tempo and and 21:7 tempo....the latter being roughly 30% faster but maintaining that same ratio.

I think the area of tempo is something that many players would benefit from working on.

I think I gave the book as a prize for the H2H raffle this year...whoever won it, if they haven't read it...I'd seriously recommend them to do so.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I'd say this is pretty much spot on in the majority of cases.

Taking an example outside of golf....Alex Higgings played snooker in a way that many might say reflected his "agitated" persona....Steve Davis....the exact opposite.

In John Novosel's book Tour Tempo he talks about different individuals having different natural tempos, not necessarily in this case due obviously to their personas, but just because we all have a different tempo that we operate at. Although the vast majority of players operate on a 3:1 backswing/downswing (backswing takes 3 times longer than the downswing to impact) there are worlds of difference between a 30:10 tempo and and 21:7 tempo....the latter being roughly 30% faster but maintaining that same ratio.

I think the area of tempo is something that many players would benefit from working on.

I think I gave the book as a prize for the H2H raffle this year...whoever won it, if they haven't read it...I'd seriously recommend them to do so.

I might have to give that read sounds like my kind of thing. Also does kind of put a little more fact behind my thinking and backs up my thoughts on what I see.

 

[nickjdavis]

I might have to give that read sounds like my kind of thing. Also does kind of put a little more fact behind my thinking and backs up my thoughts on what I see.

Theres a Tour Tempo app you can download for the phone which contains a lot of the concepts outlined in the book, including videos, practice tempo tones.

 

[sunshine]

Theres a Tour Tempo app you can download for the phone which contains a lot of the concepts outlined in the book, including videos, practice tempo tones.

interesting paradox here... if tempo is intrinsic and linked to an individual's natural personality, can we work on tempo? Or do we need to learn how to play to our tempo?

 

[Depreston]

interesting paradox here... if tempo is intrinsic and linked to an individual's natural personality, can we work on tempo? Or do we need to learn how to play to our tempo?

not sure if fits in with tempo but i think the majority of ams are far too slow getting to the top of the backswing

i include myself in that

even the tour pros who are tempo kings are pretty fast like couples and els

They’re also way too fast in transition

 

[simsini]

I had a lesson a couple of years ago where the first thing he said was to swing at 80%. It's something I find difficult because it feels slow, even though I still hit the ball far enough.

 

[nickjdavis]

interesting paradox here... if tempo is intrinsic and linked to an individual's natural personality, can we work on tempo? Or do we need to learn how to play to our tempo?

I would suggest....and Novosel in the aforementioned book suggested....understanding what your own natural tempo is and working to that.

Unfortunately i cant remember the techniques that he described to help you understand what your natural tempo is...one of them was really simple and to do with how many normal pace steps you took in 10 seconds (or something like that).

 

[rulie]

My "theory" is that everyone has a natural "key time" - from the start of the backswing until the ball is struck. It's hard to change and trying to change it ends up with poor results.