Time for a change

[need_my_wedge]

Have become really disillusioned with my golf over the last two seasons. After dopping to 13 from 19 in April 2016, and then playing to 13 for the whole season without going back 0.1, I thought I was in a good place and ready to push on. Alas, as I have posted previously in other threads, my game did a major U turn and has been heading around the U bend faster than a... well fast. It has gotten so bad and inconsistent that I just don't enjoy playing, have given up playing in comps, and don't play in my swindle that much either because 21/ 22 points a round is just plain depressing, and I have no chance to play anywhere near handicap, let alone compete.

I've had lessons with the pro's at my club, have had the odd 30+ pointer but haven't really got my game back. On the verge of giving up, I was put onto a coach outside my club. I went to see him on Saturday, and was hit with a wave of enthusiasm and postivity. When I got there, I knew the person having a lesson with him - one of the PGA pro's that used to coach my lad when he was about 8 (my lad, not the pro ). The new guy has just moved to a local range, and brings his own GC4 to play, which he put me on first. Whoah.... immediately can see why I've been hooking the ball, constantly getting a -15.8 lie angle with a closed face at impact . He took a few videos from front and side, and then proceeded to disseminate the horror show with me. Far too many issues to detail here, but essentially, my "swings" (there were multiple swings in one) was made up of a number of bad errors trying to correct other bad errors . He stopped the video at a number of points, and by the laws of phyics, it is apparently some kind of miracle that I could even get the club to hit the ball.

The first thing he wanted to change was my grip, I "had" a very strong grip, which wasn't helping my hook any. He told me that the instant I changed my grip, it will start flying right, but not to worry, it will help to change the swing. Wow, instantly, the lie angle was down to -8, and yes, it was flying about 45 degrees right of where I was aiming. He pointed out a few other things that need to change and that if I want to get better, there's a bit of work to do. I'm good with that as I don't really want to quit the game. We focused on the grip and a small posture change for the rest of the lesson and despite feeling alien as hell, uncomfortable, and impossible to swing, we carried on. I hit a basket of balls after the lesson, the swing feels unlike anything I've ever swung, and yes there were a lot of right hits, but also, I hit a few very nice strikes.

Went out Saturday afternoon to play 9 holes, and decided to play with the new grip and just see how it went, no counting, no worries if it went wrong etc. OK, so playing a driver...... no, no and no, just a big curling slice, but apart from the odd wierd iron shot, was very surprised.

Sunday morning I received all the video footage, GC4 data and comments from the lesson, along with some instructional footage. Tried again yesterday (after about 50 practice swings in the garden first), and it was starting to improve. I had to change the Vardon overlap finger that I've played with for ever, to an interlock, as that felt a more stable grip on the club in the swing, but that made it feel even more alien than it was. Surprisingly, I only had five "bad" strikes (by which I mean big right hits), there were a couple of heavy strikes, no thins, and a bit of lost distance, but they were mostly straight, and very surprisingly,a lot more loft than I've been playing with (no surprise really with -15.8 lie and closed face). Despite not counting, I know I played mostly bogey golf - I know, don't count...... I still don't like the feel of my arms in the swing, and I found it really difficult to play "feel" shots inside 100 yds, but I know that is just a matter of practice. Surprisingly, the new grip also seems to restrict my arm movement, which in turn helps restrict my old overswing, something I've been trying to stop for years.

So a change in coach, has resulted in a changed grip, which has resulted in a change of mind for me. It will result in multiple changes in my swing I'm sure, which will hopefully change my performance and my feeling out on the course. It's a shame I didn't decide to make this change earlier in the season, but he has given me a more positive outlook for my game, with the winter to work on it all. Hopefully I can get to a better place in my game long before I go to St Andrews next May.

 

[IanM]

I remember having a major grip change years ago.... sat in front of the tv in the evening gripping a piece of dowling .... and even at my desk in the office!! Anything to speed up it feeling "natural!"

Keep at it!

 

[Orikoru]

My grip is would probably be considered a total mess but I would hate to change it. Have tried other grips just for curiosity at the range and it feels horrible, like I'm barely hanging onto the club and it might fly out of my hands at any minute.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

My grip is would probably be considered a total mess but I would hate to change it. Have tried other grips just for curiosity at the range and it feels horrible, like I'm barely hanging onto the club and it might fly out of my hands at any minute.

Winter is the perfect time to sort it out, put in time on the range and no scorecard pressure on the course.

If you want to improve you have to be prepared to go backwards for a period.

I'm a long time cat 1 golfer and have a continuing issue of closing the clubface at impact. Its taking me forever to eliminate the odd big miss left and I am still not comfortable with the feeling i'm working on but I trust my coach and I'm prepared to go through a period of crap golf to move my game forward in the longer term.

I think too many golfers think short term. Making even small changes can take time and the golfer needs to make the effort to invest time hitting balls.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Almost -16 lie angle My son were at -9 and me at -6, and thought that wasn't good for accurate golf.

The clubface loft must be pointing miles right when your hands are so high/away from your body at impact.

What was your path like ?

Hope you manage to slowly correct it as from our little bit of experience it helps

 

[Grant85]

A good post.

I think a lot of people have a complete misunderstanding of what going to a coach will be like.

Many people think that there is a magic bullet and a simple and quick adjustment is going to improve their golf. Obviously if you are struggling to break 90 then there is likely to be a fairly big problem with your technique.

I remember being completely disheartened a few years ago after 2 one hour lessons, my (albeit poor) swing had been completely dismantled and I couldn't imagine how I was going to get round the golf course. 3 weeks later and I was hitting the ball as well as I'd ever hit it and went on to win a trophy and get cut 6 shots the following season.

Just look at the likes of Justin Rose and Alex Noren practising their transition and club path prior to every shot. It looks like they are torturing themselves with every swing - and these are accomplished tour professionals at the top of the game. Clearly what they are doing is not completely natural to them, but the realise it's what they have to do to play the shot.

 

[Garush34]

Have become really disillusioned with my golf over the last two seasons. After dopping to 13 from 19 in April 2016, and then playing to 13 for the whole season without going back 0.1, I thought I was in a good place and ready to push on. Alas, as I have posted previously in other threads, my game did a major U turn and has been heading around the U bend faster than a... well fast. It has gotten so bad and inconsistent that I just don't enjoy playing, have given up playing in comps, and don't play in my swindle that much either because 21/ 22 points a round is just plain depressing, and I have no chance to play anywhere near handicap, let alone compete.

I've had lessons with the pro's at my club, have had the odd 30+ pointer but haven't really got my game back. On the verge of giving up, I was put onto a coach outside my club. I went to see him on Saturday, and was hit with a wave of enthusiasm and postivity. When I got there, I knew the person having a lesson with him - one of the PGA pro's that used to coach my lad when he was about 8 (my lad, not the pro ). The new guy has just moved to a local range, and brings his own GC4 to play, which he put me on first. Whoah.... immediately can see why I've been hooking the ball, constantly getting a -15.8 lie angle with a closed face at impact . He took a few videos from front and side, and then proceeded to disseminate the horror show with me. Far too many issues to detail here, but essentially, my "swings" (there were multiple swings in one) was made up of a number of bad errors trying to correct other bad errors . He stopped the video at a number of points, and by the laws of phyics, it is apparently some kind of miracle that I could even get the club to hit the ball.

The first thing he wanted to change was my grip, I "had" a very strong grip, which wasn't helping my hook any. He told me that the instant I changed my grip, it will start flying right, but not to worry, it will help to change the swing. Wow, instantly, the lie angle was down to -8, and yes, it was flying about 45 degrees right of where I was aiming. He pointed out a few other things that need to change and that if I want to get better, there's a bit of work to do. I'm good with that as I don't really want to quit the game. We focused on the grip and a small posture change for the rest of the lesson and despite feeling alien as hell, uncomfortable, and impossible to swing, we carried on. I hit a basket of balls after the lesson, the swing feels unlike anything I've ever swung, and yes there were a lot of right hits, but also, I hit a few very nice strikes.

Went out Saturday afternoon to play 9 holes, and decided to play with the new grip and just see how it went, no counting, no worries if it went wrong etc. OK, so playing a driver...... no, no and no, just a big curling slice, but apart from the odd wierd iron shot, was very surprised.

Sunday morning I received all the video footage, GC4 data and comments from the lesson, along with some instructional footage. Tried again yesterday (after about 50 practice swings in the garden first), and it was starting to improve. I had to change the Vardon overlap finger that I've played with for ever, to an interlock, as that felt a more stable grip on the club in the swing, but that made it feel even more alien than it was. Surrisingly, I only had five "bad" strikes (by which I mean big right hits), there were a couple of heavy strikes, no thins, and a bit of lost distance, but they were mostly straight, and very surprisingly,a lot more loft than I've been playing with (no surprise with -15.8 lie and closed face). Despite not counting, I know I played mostly bogey golf - I know, don't count...... I still don't like the feel of my arms in the swing, and I found it really difficult to play "feel" shots inside 100 yds, but I know that is just a matter of practice. Surprisingly, the new grip also seems to restrict my arm movement, which in turn helps restrict my old overswing, something I've been trying to stop for years.

So a change in coach, has resulted in a changed grip, which has resulted in a change of mind for me. It will result in multiple changes in my swing I'm sure, which will hopefully change my performance and my feeling out on the course. It's a shame I didn't decide to make this change earlier in the season, but he has given me a more positive outlook for my game, with the winter to work on it all. Hopefully I can get to a better place in my game long before I go to St Andrews next May.

Good luck with the changes, even though the high right shot is not what you want. It is good to see that the changes the pro has suggested has resulted in a change in ball flight. It will just take time and soon click into place.

I recently had a similar feelings with a pro. I liked my pro and have used him for a number of years, but felt a change was needed as I had just stalled in my game. Tried online lessons through the Skillest App, and got a guy in Australia got a couple things to work on and then went out for my first round since the lesson at the weekend and shot a 5 over 73, my best score to day. Its great what a different pair of eyes can do for your swing.

 

[need_my_wedge]

Almost -16 lie angle My son were at -9 and me at -6, and thought that wasn't good for accurate golf.

The clubface loft must be pointing miles right when your hands are so high/away from your body at impact.

What was your path like ?

Hope you manage to slowly correct it as from our little bit of experience it helps

3 degrees in to out with the face closed 13.2 degrees to path...... a flippin' mess....

 

[duncan mackie]

3 degrees in to out with the face closed 13.2 degrees to path...... a flippin' mess....

There's a lot of people out there with far worse numbers...and they are happy with the results!

For me the biggest, most important, point you made was that any swing is the result of many layers, and the final numbers (result) is frequently little to do with fundamental, underlying, faults (elements) - most of which is why working away on the most likely cause of Joe average producing your symptoms makes things worse on many occasions!

Good luck - but I bet you make good progress

 

[User2021]

Good luck with the changes, hope it all works out for you and that you stick with it.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

3 degrees in to out with the face closed 13.2 degrees to path...... a flippin' mess....

That must of lead to interesting flights/results when the timing wasn't quite right, pretty extreme face compensation. Sure you will find that things will improve very quickly with a bit of practise, as son did.

Just out of interest, did you happen to hit shanks/heel often with an in to out and high hands ? (son had similar path to you/fairly neutral and very strong right hand grip & the toe down loads, probably not but was just being nosey)

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A very interesting post. It's good that the OP has found someone that he can work with and the golfing mojo is back again. I've been an advocate of getting PGA tuition but it has to be with the right teacher and one that you can trust fully, especially if the changes are going to be big ones. I would advocate working on the drills given at the range so the changes don't feel quite so alien but taking it onto the course over the winter as well and not give a hoot about scores but learn how to play with the new swing. I hope it goes well and the OP really hits the ground running in 2019

 

[need_my_wedge]

That must of lead to interesting flights/results when the timing wasn't quite right, pretty extreme face compensation. Sure you will find that things will improve very quickly with a bit of practise, as son did.

Mostly anything between a lasered rocket straight up the middle, to a 90 degree left turn at 100yds.

Just out of interest, did you happen to hit shanks/heel often with an in to out and high hands ? (son had similar path to you/fairly neutral and very strong right hand grip & the toe down loads, probably not but was just being nosey)

No shanks, a few block rights although not that often, did have a few heel shots. I thought I had become very inconsistent as the ball would/ could move next to nothing or considerably right to left at varying points in flight, so not always a duck hook, sometimes a longer pull left, or even a good looking baby draw , but the duck hook was the most common, and left in the trees at ours is a killer. Looking at the GC4 data, he reckons I am actually very consistent (ly bad ) with the face so far down and closed, I was hitting off the toe almost every shot, just different parts of the toe, and on different planes (often in the same attempt to hit a ball ).

Probably explains why I couldn't seem to stop a ball either, already saw a change in that by the ball flight when I was playing Sunday. I'll be at the range again working on the grip this afternoon before trying the course later, and the same on Friday. Hopefully getting more used to it before seeing him again on Saturday.

 

[need_my_wedge]

Since I last posted here, I’ve been persevering with the lessons, and practicing at the range at least 3 times a week. The initial changes gave me something positive to see, and I latched on to it like a dog gnawing a bone. In my last lesson, my lie angle at impact was 1 degree UP, a massive change from the 15 degrees toe down in the first few lessons, and am hitting more central on the face. I’m happy with the grip, it feels normal now, although it does slip occasionally. A better posture and position in my setup. The biggest changes we have made are on the swing plane, trying to eradicate the big loop at the top causing me to come in steep on a completely different plane to the take away. It’s not fully eradicated, but there is a significant improvement and I’m now almost coming down on the same plane, with lag, and good compact body movement through the swing. There’s still a lot of work to do to get a bit more consistency, but even now, it’s a whole new ballgame.


I could of posted in the “I played today thread”, but thought worth updating in this one for relevance. So yesterday I went out for a round at my track. Yes we’re playing off fairway mats, and if it wasn’t for the hollow tines, a few more puts would/ could/ may have dropped and it would have been even better. But....... I shot 80 with two double bogies (7 pars and 2 birdies). It’s been over two years since I played like that, no sign of the duck hook, but some really solid ball striking with my irons, and am even back hitting the 3 wood (been out of the bag for 2 seasons) and hybrid. It was a lot easier to ignore the two or three bad shots, because I knew what caused them, and they were scattered through the round, not a culmination of 10 other bad shots one after the other. Still got a couple moths to work more, but a very pleasing start to the year.

 

[bobmac]

It was a lot easier to ignore the two or three bad shots, because I knew what caused them,

This for me is key to long term improvement.

 

[Norrin Radd]

great to see you are sticking with it and your game is turning around to get back on track. keep up the good work.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Since I last posted here, I’ve been persevering with the lessons, and practicing at the range at least 3 times a week. The initial changes gave me something positive to see, and I latched on to it like a dog gnawing a bone. In my last lesson, my lie angle at impact was 1 degree UP, a massive change from the 15 degrees toe down in the first few lessons, and am hitting more central on the face. I’m happy with the grip, it feels normal now, although it does slip occasionally. A better posture and position in my setup. The biggest changes we have made are on the swing plane, trying to eradicate the big loop at the top causing me to come in steep on a completely different plane to the take away. It’s not fully eradicated, but there is a significant improvement and I’m now almost coming down on the same plane, with lag, and good compact body movement through the swing. There’s still a lot of work to do to get a bit more consistency, but even now, it’s a whole new ballgame.


I could of posted in the “I played today thread”, but thought worth updating in this one for relevance. So yesterday I went out for a round at my track. Yes we’re playing off fairway mats, and if it wasn’t for the hollow tines, a few more puts would/ could/ may have dropped and it would have been even better. But....... I shot 80 with two double bogies (7 pars and 2 birdies). It’s been over two years since I played like that, no sign of the duck hook, but some really solid ball striking with my irons, and am even back hitting the 3 wood (been out of the bag for 2 seasons) and hybrid. It was a lot easier to ignore the two or three bad shots, because I knew what caused them, and they were scattered through the round, not a culmination of 10 other bad shots one after the other. Still got a couple moths to work more, but a very pleasing start to the year.

Great news. Like you I am more aware of what causes my bad shots which is a big plus. Great shooting today and imagine how good it'll be when the greens are smooth and running well. Keep the hard work up and go lower!

 

[User2021]

Since I last posted here, I’ve been persevering with the lessons, and practicing at the range at least 3 times a week. The initial changes gave me something positive to see, and I latched on to it like a dog gnawing a bone. In my last lesson, my lie angle at impact was 1 degree UP, a massive change from the 15 degrees toe down in the first few lessons, and am hitting more central on the face. I’m happy with the grip, it feels normal now, although it does slip occasionally. A better posture and position in my setup. The biggest changes we have made are on the swing plane, trying to eradicate the big loop at the top causing me to come in steep on a completely different plane to the take away. It’s not fully eradicated, but there is a significant improvement and I’m now almost coming down on the same plane, with lag, and good compact body movement through the swing. There’s still a lot of work to do to get a bit more consistency, but even now, it’s a whole new ballgame.


I could of posted in the “I played today thread”, but thought worth updating in this one for relevance. So yesterday I went out for a round at my track. Yes we’re playing off fairway mats, and if it wasn’t for the hollow tines, a few more puts would/ could/ may have dropped and it would have been even better. But....... I shot 80 with two double bogies (7 pars and 2 birdies). It’s been over two years since I played like that, no sign of the duck hook, but some really solid ball striking with my irons, and am even back hitting the 3 wood (been out of the bag for 2 seasons) and hybrid. It was a lot easier to ignore the two or three bad shots, because I knew what caused them, and they were scattered through the round, not a culmination of 10 other bad shots one after the other. Still got a couple moths to work more, but a very pleasing start to the year.

well done sir