European Super League

[Blue in Munich]

I can, I think the risk of promotion/relegation to the ESL will not help, plus the risk of more money only being able to buy 2nd tier players and losing your best would kill the game as a spectacle, all those Leagues involved simply become feeder leagues andvthe gap between the “Big 6” and the rest grows even wider.

I don’t know if you heard the Palace chairman on Sky last night, I thought he came across very well and I don’t think Chairmen like him will ever support it.

I saw him briefly but he clearly seems to have grasped the fact that the Premier League club’s issue is with UEFA and not the Premier League. He also seemed remarkably conciliatory in the circumstances.

 

[road2ruin]

Why are they in so much debt then ?

Which ones are you talking about? It's really only Madrid and Barca who are desperate for cash, they are in financial trouble so maybe I should have excluded them from my statement. For people like the Glazers they treat the club as a business so the debt is not an issue.

 

[fundy]

Which ones are you talking about? It's really only Madrid and Barca who are desperate for cash, they are in financial trouble so maybe I should have excluded them from my statement. For people like the Glazers they treat the club as a business so the debt is not an issue.

for the glazers debt is their biggest asset, you only have to look at how they structured the initial purchase of Utd

 

[oxymoron]

That was exactly my thought as well. This is all driven by money, not "for the good of the game". All this will do in the end is generate more cash to pay even higher, grossly inflated, wages to the players and widen further the gap between the haves and the have-nots. I bet the agents are already rubbing their hands.

One has already said it will lead to more big money transfers , that Kia bloke i think it was the one who , i think was involved with the Tevez thing a few years back. So bigger transfer fees, this will just escalate and we may end up where we are now with clubs in the same debt in a few years so what will they have achieved ? Unless they put a salary cap to enable the clubs to keep a bigger share of the income.

 

[Beezerk]

You can only be selected for your National Team if you are registered with that National Governing body, if the FA remove the registration of the ESL players then they are no longer eligible to be selected.

Would ESL players be able to circumnavigate this by signing for an English FA team as well? Say Harry Kane signs for Morecambe Town or at least pays to sign for them lol.
I'm not sure if you can be registered with two different leagues though, one for the experts.

 

[rksquire]

Is there a balanced (justified) argument to this or is it as bad as it would appear? All we're getting is the negatives, and there are a lot of them but at some point the people with the loudest, most vociferous views have to be assessed as to how balanced they are.

For example, Ceferin is in charge of that known to be above all reproach and the picture of virtue that is UEFA; In fact, UEFA and FIFA are as corrupt and as greedy as the clubs they are now accusing of being similar. Referencing people as 'snakes' without for one second looking in the mirror at the people resident at UEFA & FIFA HQ. Of course, thanks to whistleblowers, some will say that they have punished and sorted themselves out, all while ignoring the fact that their houses are falling down around them.

Gary Neville, who probably works for the average wage, at Sky, a corporation that surely must be a not-for-profit business judging by his rants, and ultimately sold out to American paymasters (not that Murdoch was any saint), fails to see the irony when he points the finger at American owners and their search for more gold. Football clubs are businesses at the end of the day. It's also the same Gary Neville that sees no issue in playing inflated salaries at his own club at the level they are at in the pursuit of success. I mean it was an impassioned rant, but it's "criminal" in quotes rather than criminal in any legal sense.

And then there's others, all entitled to a say, but the selfless millionaire Biesla waxing lyrical about the how the rich get richer whilst he pocktets £5-6m a year is a bit rich in itself.

The only people with a right to be aggrieved are the fans and I agree with them but I'd like to see a balanced view as to why the 'founders' think this is good for football; all other commentators are motivated by the same self interest as the '12' - greed. But fans will get to see, in theory, the best players against each other on a regular basis, but if you don't support any of the participants it's really a side show and how long it can hold your interest remains to be seen.

As for the domestic competitions, let's face it, the Champions League killed the League Cup and the FA Cup is held together by nostalgia only at this point. The Premier League is a good product, but it's an example of why the WSL is a possibility; breaking away to a large degree from the Football League and Football Association, it was inevitable these clubs would get too much power. The door opened in the 90s and really it's jsut being shoved now. You can but titles - everyone spends money, of course, but City and Chelsea bought their success. We had faux outrage at the Glazers, Roman, Mansour but they were allowed to do it; and now the government, the FA, UEFA and FIFA are saying "sure we let you throw all that money in, but as our pockets were getting lined it was okay, but this, what you're planning to do now, that's just not on!".

As a fan I hope it doesn't happen, at least not in the current format. I suspect the future of football is in PPV via streaming devices where the best players complete regularly against each other, and the global consumption of football does mean we want Barcelona vs Juventus rather than Atalanta vs Rennes. Ultimately, there's a good chance there's an agreement reached regarding the Champions League and UEFA will accept it as they need the cash-cow teams to serve their own enterprise. As it stands now though, fans are having their say - it's just a shame they are being whipped up by 'greedy' football made millionaires.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I saw him briefly but he clearly seems to have grasped the fact that the Premier League club’s issue is with UEFA and not the Premier League. He also seemed remarkably conciliatory in the circumstances.

It would be interesting to see how they would think if there was more money on the table for them - he did avoid a number of questions in regards the money filtering down from the Premier League into the leagues below etc

I don’t think it would take much for all the chairmen’s eyes to light up if more money was offered to each club including the Premier League themselves

Where this money comes from I have no idea because JP Morgan isn’t going to give £3.6 billion for nothing.

Whilst it’s only those 6 clubs - I have no doubt that if a club was offered £350 mil a year then the eyes would be turned.

There aren’t many owners/chairman that do it for the love of the game especially in the top league.

With players like Haaland and Mbappe looking to go for well over £150mil with wages of £500k to £1mil a year - the big clubs are going to look at ways to get that money

 

[fundy]

Is there a balanced (justified) argument to this or is it as bad as it would appear? All we're getting is the negatives, and there are a lot of them but at some point the people with the loudest, most vociferous views have to be assessed as to how balanced they are.

For example, Ceferin is in charge of that known to be above all reproach and the picture of virtue that is UEFA; In fact, UEFA and FIFA are as corrupt and as greedy as the clubs they are now accusing of being similar. Referencing people as 'snakes' without for one second looking in the mirror at the people resident at UEFA & FIFA HQ. Of course, thanks to whistleblowers, some will say that they have punished and sorted themselves out, all while ignoring the fact that their houses are falling down around them.

Gary Neville, who probably works for the average wage, at Sky, a corporation that surely must be a not-for-profit business judging by his rants, and ultimately sold out to American paymasters (not that Murdoch was any saint), fails to see the irony when he points the finger at American owners and their search for more gold. Football clubs are businesses at the end of the day. It's also the same Gary Neville that sees no issue in playing inflated salaries at his own club at the level they are at in the pursuit of success. I mean it was an impassioned rant, but it's "criminal" in quotes rather than criminal in any legal sense.

And then there's others, all entitled to a say, but the selfless millionaire Biesla waxing lyrical about the how the rich get richer whilst he pocktets £5-6m a year is a bit rich in itself.

The only people with a right to be aggrieved are the fans and I agree with them but I'd like to see a balanced view as to why the 'founders' think this is good for football; all other commentators are motivated by the same self interest as the '12' - greed. But fans will get to see, in theory, the best players against each other on a regular basis, but if you don't support any of the participants it's really a side show and how long it can hold your interest remains to be seen.

As for the domestic competitions, let's face it, the Champions League killed the League Cup and the FA Cup is held together by nostalgia only at this point. The Premier League is a good product, but it's an example of why the WSL is a possibility; breaking away to a large degree from the Football League and Football Association, it was inevitable these clubs would get too much power. The door opened in the 90s and really it's jsut being shoved now. You can but titles - everyone spends money, of course, but City and Chelsea bought their success. We had faux outrage at the Glazers, Roman, Mansour but they were allowed to do it; and now the government, the FA, UEFA and FIFA are saying "sure we let you throw all that money in, but as our pockets were getting lined it was okay, but this, what you're planning to do now, that's just not on!".

As a fan I hope it doesn't happen, at least not in the current format. I suspect the future of football is in PPV via streaming devices where the best players complete regularly against each other, and the global consumption of football does mean we want Barcelona vs Juventus rather than Atalanta vs Rennes. Ultimately, there's a good chance there's an agreement reached regarding the Champions League and UEFA will accept it as they need the cash-cow teams to serve their own enterprise. As it stands now though, fans are having their say - it's just a shame they are being whipped up by 'greedy' football made millionaires.

A very accurate tweet/retweet from earlier:

UEFA put a Europa League final between Arsenal and Chelsea (8 miles apart) in Baku, 3000 miles away, with no direct transport links to most of Europe and a Visa requirement to enter. Spare me the “we love looking after the fans” tripe.


Chris Wheatley @ChrisWheatley_

UEFA president Ceferin: "To the English clubs, come to your senses - not out of love for football - but out of respect for those who bleed themselves dry to come to the stadium." football.london/premier-league…

 

[fundy]

brilliant from wolves

https://twitter.com/x/status/1384437712393064451

 

[Reemul]

Is there a balanced (justified) argument to this or is it as bad as it would appear? All we're getting is the negatives, and there are a lot of them but at some point the people with the loudest, most vociferous views have to be assessed as to how balanced they are.

For example, Ceferin is in charge of that known to be above all reproach and the picture of virtue that is UEFA; In fact, UEFA and FIFA are as corrupt and as greedy as the clubs they are now accusing of being similar. Referencing people as 'snakes' without for one second looking in the mirror at the people resident at UEFA & FIFA HQ. Of course, thanks to whistleblowers, some will say that they have punished and sorted themselves out, all while ignoring the fact that their houses are falling down around them.

Gary Neville, who probably works for the average wage, at Sky, a corporation that surely must be a not-for-profit business judging by his rants, and ultimately sold out to American paymasters (not that Murdoch was any saint), fails to see the irony when he points the finger at American owners and their search for more gold. Football clubs are businesses at the end of the day. It's also the same Gary Neville that sees no issue in playing inflated salaries at his own club at the level they are at in the pursuit of success. I mean it was an impassioned rant, but it's "criminal" in quotes rather than criminal in any legal sense.

And then there's others, all entitled to a say, but the selfless millionaire Biesla waxing lyrical about the how the rich get richer whilst he pocktets £5-6m a year is a bit rich in itself.

The only people with a right to be aggrieved are the fans and I agree with them but I'd like to see a balanced view as to why the 'founders' think this is good for football; all other commentators are motivated by the same self interest as the '12' - greed. But fans will get to see, in theory, the best players against each other on a regular basis, but if you don't support any of the participants it's really a side show and how long it can hold your interest remains to be seen.

As for the domestic competitions, let's face it, the Champions League killed the League Cup and the FA Cup is held together by nostalgia only at this point. The Premier League is a good product, but it's an example of why the WSL is a possibility; breaking away to a large degree from the Football League and Football Association, it was inevitable these clubs would get too much power. The door opened in the 90s and really it's jsut being shoved now. You can but titles - everyone spends money, of course, but City and Chelsea bought their success. We had faux outrage at the Glazers, Roman, Mansour but they were allowed to do it; and now the government, the FA, UEFA and FIFA are saying "sure we let you throw all that money in, but as our pockets were getting lined it was okay, but this, what you're planning to do now, that's just not on!".

As a fan I hope it doesn't happen, at least not in the current format. I suspect the future of football is in PPV via streaming devices where the best players complete regularly against each other, and the global consumption of football does mean we want Barcelona vs Juventus rather than Atalanta vs Rennes. Ultimately, there's a good chance there's an agreement reached regarding the Champions League and UEFA will accept it as they need the cash-cow teams to serve their own enterprise. As it stands now though, fans are having their say - it's just a shame they are being whipped up by 'greedy' football made millionaires.

It's bad because of the closed shop. 6 teams earn an extra £300 million a year, in 5 years they have £1.5 billion more than the other 14 teams in the league. There will be no Leicester, West Ham, Wolves or Everton pushing for top 6, it will be impossible. If that is the case we may as well have a different league with just the 14 teams in. All we will do is pay second tier players more money so they can play to not get relegated, might as well pay them less to at least win something.

 

[GB72]

I am certainly no supporter of this but I would be intrigued to see how UEFA would approach this if, for example, these clubs were breaking away to form a league to replace their domestic league commitments rather than then their European club competition commitments. The Champions League and the Europa League are the UEFA cash cows and to take them away would leave them with serious issues. This new super league could effectively kill off both competitions as well as leaving UEFA with a potential legal battle with the TV companies who have bought rights to a competition that is not now worth anywhere near what they paid. Would they be so vociferous if this proposal left them unaffected and hit the wallets of the national associations and premier league only.


As I have said, before, I am a follower of football and a club but i would not class myself a fan, I have not shown any of the commitment associated with that so my opinions are from an outsider point of view and not with the level of knowledge that some have on here so happy to be shot down.

 

[Orikoru]

The version I’ve heard/seen is that two clubs were not particularly keen in the first place but were faced with the choice of waving the ship goodbye as it sailed towards the dollars or boarding before the gangplank was pulled up.

I don't know who the clubs are, but this is the only reason I could see Spurs or Arsenal being involved really. If they were told it was happening, do they want in or not, they'd have most likely decided it's better to be inside the tent peeing outwards. Or make a stand against it and watch all the competitions you're in become worthless.

 

[fundy]

I don't know who the clubs are, but this is the only reason I could see Spurs or Arsenal being involved really. If they were told it was happening, do they want in or not, they'd have most likely decided it's better to be inside the tent peeing outwards. Or make a stand against it and watch all the competitions you're in become worthless.

Arsenals involvement far more down to the nationality of their owner and his approach to business rather than anything else I expect

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Throughout this all though UEFA managed to announce their changes to the CL

It’s not as extreme as the Super League but it’s a step forward to being a closed shop and also damaging the domestic cups

Increased number of games to be played - from 6 to 10

Plus the chance for a big club to get into the CL via a back door

UEFA are going mad at this all because it takes away the money that they earn - they don’t care about the integrity of the game etc , they would love the level of finances on offer but keep it to themselves as opposed to distribute to the clubs

There was also talk this Friday that the CL clubs will be banned from this years competition - Real , Chelsea and City but I’m sure they weren’t doing the same for the Europa Lge clubs - so Man Utd and Arsenal continue ? If that’s right why treat them differently - I wonder if it’s because PSG ( Qatar ) benefit from the CL clubs going and the links with PSG and UEFA

 

[fundy]

Throughout this all though UEFA managed to announce their changes to the CL

It’s not as extreme as the Super League but it’s a step forward to being a closed shop and also damaging the domestic cups

Increased number of games to be played - from 6 to 10

Plus the chance for a big club to get into the CL via a back door

UEFA are going mad at this all because it takes away the money that they earn - they don’t care about the integrity of the game etc , they would love the level of finances on offer but keep it to themselves as opposed to distribute to the clubs

There was also talk this Friday that the CL clubs will be banned from this years competition - Real , Chelsea and City but I’m sure they weren’t doing the same for the Europa Lge clubs - so Man Utd and Arsenal continue ? If that’s right why treat them differently - I wonder if it’s because PSG ( Qatar ) benefit from the CL clubs going and the links with PSG and UEFA

The talk was both comps, if they throw them out of the CL theyll do the same for Europa 100%, overthinking this part Phil

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so we have the situation where significant public voices elsewhere and across the broadcast and print media are being raised in support of the ordinary fan, the ‘man in the street‘, to be protected from the legitimate interests and practices of business - and all and sundry gathering around to rail against six UK businesses doing what they deem to be in the best interests of their owners and shareholders. Oh the irony. I cannot say more...i would if I could but I can’t so I shan’t.

 

[Orikoru]

Arsenals involvement far more down to the nationality of their owner and his approach to business rather than anything else I expect

Yeah, to him it would have sounded like a no-brainer. He probably always wondered why football ever had any risk of you not qualifying for the big money tournaments.

 

[fundy]

Yeah, to him it would have sounded like a no-brainer. He probably always wondered why football ever had any risk of you not qualifying for the big money tournaments.

Has made comments along those lines in the past, as have all the American owners, theyre used to the closed shop security the NFL etc bring and want to replicate it sadly

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The talk was both comps, if they throw them out of the CL theyll do the same for Europa 100%, overthinking this part Phil

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....banned-from-champions-league-finals-danish-fa

maybe overthinking but it wouldn’t surprise me

PSG right now are not joining because of the World Cup imo - again they don’t care about the integrity etc and it wouldn’t take much for them to jump in with everyone

 

[larmen]

It looks like they invited Bayern and Dortmund from Germany. Both clubs are against it. I think they were given 4 weeks to decide.

The Gladbach manager called it the debt league.